Capture advanced enemy plane

[Butzzell]

S! All,

 

Possible new mission.

 

You are flying along in your own territory, when you see an unusual plane. It is an enemy ace in a prototype. You engage and are victorious. Ground troops examine the enemy and find name of the airbase he flew from.  HQ assigns a 2 seater to take a pilot behind enemy lines and steal one of the new planes. 

 

 

 

 

How it works.  Four trigger zones in friendly territory.  One picked at random. When any friendly plane triggers it, an enemy AI spawns. There is a subtitle to tell the team that he has spawned and in which sector. The plane will be above the standard plane set. If we are flying N-17 vs Halb D.II, this plane will be an Alb D.II.  It makes it a bit dangerous even if it is just AI.  Once killed a message appears as to which base he came from.  A 2 seater needs to land at that base. The base will be one of 4 inactive enemy bases. Once the 2 seater lands the base will change to friendly and one plane will be available. The 2 seater can NOT prang the plane on landing. The new plane must fly back to a friendly airfield. It will be shot at by enemy ground units. It will not be shot at be friendly units. So an Alb landing at Verdun will not be shot at.

[FourSpeed]

Novel idea -- I like it (for FiF).

 

Cheers,

4 <S!>

[Rotermann]

sounds cool

[Kliegmann]

Sounds like fun

[Kliegmann]

One question though, will the aircraft be armed?

[Vonrd]

Once returned to friendly airfield Alb is too valuable to use in combat operations? (Wouldn't like to see an Alb flying for Entente). Mission sounds interesting.

[Butzzell]

S!

 

Was an idea by GenMarkof.

 

Yes plane is armed but must get back to a friendly base to complete mission. No flying plane after it lands. Is too important to intel people to risk in combat.

[Heinrich]

Namaste Butzzell,

 

Sounds as a nice mission with many pilots involved. What if the 1st experimental plane is flown by a Blue human pilot and he/she has to fly a certain circuit over the front to test the capabilities of that plane.

If that is done successfully the Blue side will be rewarded in the present mission only with and improved plane or maybe a heavy bomber or number X double/top machine guns.

If the Blue ace fails in completing the circuit all happens as you described above and the Red side will have the additions.

 

It will a gamble for each side to bring out the test plane or not you could win or loose a lot with it.

In case say the Reds have won the Blue test plane and their ace succeeded in completing the circuit the Reds will have a double reward e.g. 2 heavy bombers.

[IRFC Hawkeye]

Better start off simple and see how it works in actual practice    , then add variations later, if desired.  The whole thing sounds very cool, is it based on any actual historical event?

 

So this stolen plane would have to fight his way back....friendlies would probably even provide a little escort....sounds like action waiting to happen.  Would the side that the plane is stolen from know the 4 possible inactive bases that are at risk?

 

It would be cool if the stolen plane could have some hastily painted roundels/crosses on it to help with identification.

[Butzzell]

S!

 

Need to see how well it goes in basic mode. We want to be careful about adding planes. It would be very easy to over power one side.  That is why the plane is gone after landing.

 

 

No roundels.  Not enough time to paint it. Just barely able to steal it.  It will be a plane outside the normal ones that are available. Easy to identify.

 

The big problem is that it needs several unused enemy airfields. The enemy can see them but does not know which one it will be. The area must have enough unused airfields available and well spread out.

[IRFC Hawkeye]

The current map certainly seems to have a lot of them....

[J5_Gamecock]

I like the idea, but I agree that it shouldn't be used after successful theft.. 

 

  A question tho...  

 

  You say "any" friendly plane can trigger it. So if our spy plane or arty spotter were to trigger it, would the AI plane attack them?  

 

  Not sure I'd want to chance losing one of those few "specialized" aircraft. 

 

 

  *edit*

 

    Also...  Say Blue is trying to steal the plane from Red. At what point will the red team know which field the target aircraft is being taken from? I assume it would be once the 2 seater lands there?

[Butzzell]

S!

 

Any, any,  yes ....any, friendly plane can trigger the Ace to appear.  If he is close enough he will attack them. A weeee bit dangerous.    When the 2 seater lands at the proper base it turns from red to blue. It takes about 20 seconds. They have to look at the map to see the change.

[Joker_BR]

I like the idea of capturing a plane. Maybe with time it should be selected from fighters and/or two seaters randomically too. A fighter can be used to kill opponents on his way home, but a two seater will have to sneak past enemy defenses and try to get home as fast as possible. Two different situations. Great idea, GenMarkof.

[Butzzell]

I like the idea of capturing a plane. Maybe with time it should be selected from fighters and/or two seaters randomically too. A fighter can be used to kill opponents on his way home, but a two seater will have to sneak past enemy defenses and try to get home as fast as possible. Two different situations. Great idea, GenMarkof.

S!

 

 

That is totally possible. 

[IRFC Hawkeye]

....You say "any" friendly plane can trigger it. So if our spy plane or arty spotter were to trigger it, would the AI plane attack them?  

 

  Not sure I'd want to chance losing one of those few "specialized" aircraft....

 

Probably a good idea that it spawns at a pretty low altitude, so it doesn't materialize out of nowhere on somebody's six, and rob somebody's 2-seater mission, as GC says.

[Butzzell]

S! All

 

I have been tweeking it. The ace spawns but is not overly aggressive. He flies in a circle once activated and only attacks if you come within normal distance.  That means he can be activated and will stay in that area. If a 2 seater activates him he may or may not attack them. Fighters can be called over to kill him.   If the ace is changed to an advanced 2 seater that does mean a little more danger but the scouts will be advanced as well.   The 2 seater thing works better when when Central side has to capture an enemy plane because the Entente have a larger selection to choose from.

 

I believe this gives us a new mission. At present it is set up for an Entente objective but it can be changed for either side as needed.

 

Well,  that is one mission. Now for another mission.  

 

I was talking with Klaiber and he thought it would be good to see the Gotha or the HP escorted all the way across the map.  Not exactly bombing London but something similar. This sets up the Strategic Target objective.     The objective is a building set way, way behind enemy lines. It can only be done by the plane labeled "Strategic Bomber". It will take at least one hour to get there. The target is randomly selected. It is a distinct building easily identified. Only 2 AAA trucks defending but still, best bombed from altitude for safety. The challenge is to get to the target.    Too simple? Too easy? Too easy to stop?  What, another bomber mission? Can't we come up with something more imaginative that does not involve bombs? Well, not really.

[FourSpeed]

S! All

 

I have been tweeking it. The ace spawns but is not overly aggressive. He flies in a circle once activated and only attacks if you come within normal distance.  That means he can be activated and will stay in that area. If a 2 seater activates him he may or may not attack them. Fighters can be called over to kill him.   If the ace is changed to an advanced 2 seater that does mean a little more danger but the scouts will be advanced as well.   The 2 seater thing works better when when Central side has to capture an enemy plane because the Entente have a larger selection to choose from.

 

I believe this gives us a new mission. At present it is set up for an Entente objective but it can be changed for either side as needed.

 

Well,  that is one mission. Now for another mission.  

 

I was talking with Klaiber and he thought it would be good to see the Gotha or the HP escorted all the way across the map.  Not exactly bombing London but something similar. This sets up the Strategic Target objective.     The objective is a building set way, way behind enemy lines. It can only be done by the plane labeled "Strategic Bomber". It will take at least one hour to get there. The target is randomly selected. It is a distinct building easily identified. Only 2 AAA trucks defending but still, best bombed from altitude for safety. The challenge is to get to the target.    Too simple? Too easy? Too easy to stop?  What, another bomber mission? Can't we come up with something more imaginative that does not involve bombs? Well, not really.

 

Well, the fundamental concerns I have with the bombing mission are:

 

1>  If the defending team recognizes the building, and caps it, there's pretty much zero chance of a Heavy bomber making it to the target. If he's flying at height, he can be seen from miles away, and if he comes in low, it's fairly likely he'll be flakked. 

 

2> Taking an hour (or more) out of the mission for one (highly probable suicide) flight to a 'capped' target wouldn't seem to be much "fun" for the guy tasked to attempt it.  Also, given numbers of pilots and the length of that mission, a team wouldn't really be able to spare the resources to provide that long of an escort.  Further, even if the target isn't capped, and he's successful bombing it, he's still done for the day, as it'll take him another hour to fly home (he can't just ditch the plane because that will count as a capture), assuming he isn't summarily killed due to point #1.

 

I can only speak for myself, but that mission wouldn't be on my list of personal favorites to undertake. 

 

 

Regards,

4 <S!>

[Butzzell]

S!

 

Ok,  what if it was under an hour?  Or what if we move into the last 5 km of the existing area? That way you could bomb pop up targets on the way home?  btw  it is a random 1 of 4 on the map.   not easy to cap

[cubancoverunner]

S!

 

Ok,  what if it was under an hour?  Or what if we move into the last 5 km of the existing area? That way you could bomb pop up targets on the way home?  btw  it is a random 1 of 4 on the map.   not easy to cap

I think both missions sound great!  Agree with Four, maybe a little less than a full hour.  Certainly could hit targets on the way home.  Would definitely be wise to be sneaky, I'm up for some cloud hoppin'

[IRFC Hawkeye]

....I was talking with Klaiber and he thought it would be good to see the Gotha or the HP escorted all the way across the map.  Not exactly bombing London but something similar. This sets up the Strategic Target objective.     The objective is a building set way, way behind enemy lines. It can only be done by the plane labeled "Strategic Bomber". It will take at least one hour to get there. The target is randomly selected. It is a distinct building easily identified. Only 2 AAA trucks defending but still, best bombed from altitude for safety. The challenge is to get to the target.    Too simple? Too easy? Too easy to stop?  What, another bomber mission? Can't we come up with something more imaginative that does not involve bombs? Well, not really.

 

You haven't provided any incentive for that mission to actually be escorted, which I think might have been an integral part of the original concept.  If the only part of that mission that you offer points for is to bomb something, folks are going to assign resources based only on the scoring of those points (note the comments made already about using stealth as the main challenge, implying no escort).  Perhaps if you make the successful RTB of the bomber after successfully destroying the target the points-scoring object of that mission, it might encourage the actual escorting of the bomber more than otherwise.  Another possibility could be to have an assigned escort of one of more scouts, designated in the mission for that express purpose, to have to make it to the target and back, and THEY (one or more?) have to RTB successfully to score points.

 

Escorting is a very hard task to be successful at and this type of mission might be a good way to try to encourage that.  The points gained could be more than the usual amount if it turns out to be excessively difficult.

 

One inherent problem that I see though is the fact that the Gotha can climb so much higher than the HP, which no matter how you look at it gives it a far greater range of altitudes to hide at.

 

If you assign this type of mission to only one side, it would be equally difficult for both teams to accomplish, because both teams must do the exact same mission with the exact same planes (within a side-changing phase); could be either side's bombers, in fact could be rotated from one side to the other in different phases of an event.  In other words, in one phase both sides have a chance to do it in HP's; in the next phase both have to attempt it in the Gotha.

 

It might be worthy to consider that those actual extreme long-range missions in WWI were done unescorted by scouts; essentially, the Gothas in their group were their own escorts.  I'm not sure to what extent HP's that were sent deep into enemy territory in daylight had escort either....maybe some DH4's were there for part of the ride, or not.  I think in both cases though, "interceptors" that were sent up to challenge these formations were not just patrols that happened to be up there flying around.  Spotters at some point visually located the bomber formation and then interceptors were launched to attempt to destroy some or all of it.  Could this be a part of the mission?  A message informing a nearby drome of enemy altitude and heading?

 

You decide.

[Butzzell]

S!

 

Spotters are a doable. Not sure if we need them if we have 20 to 30 players on a side. Make it back to base is interesting.  If the target is just a special target somewhere in the back half of the enemy area then it would probably be part of a larger package. So escort may be built in.  It may just be a special bomber among others.

 

Another option? Make the existing high level bomber targets- the Factory and the Aerodrome -  to be bombed by ONLY the high altitude bombers? You need a Gotha or HP to activate the target.

[Kliegmann]

Dont know if this would pull too many pilots away, but like Luft was saying, instead of a scout escort, make the mission a 2 or 3 plane bomber box, and increase the number of targets that need to be hit, the carpet bombing strategy.  (Success and points could be awarded by a % of buildings, ect destroyed.)  I know this type of bombing strategy wasn't actually employed until more towards the end of the war, but it might be an interesting mission for phase B or C.  Another thing that could be interesting is adding to the mission, a post bombing damage assessment recon flight. (Maybe bonus points for completion.  It'll be a high risk mission)

[IRFC Hawkeye]

All ideas are great.  You gotta love this sim.  So many possibilities!!  The greatest thanks to Butzzell and all the other mission makers for bringing these ideas to life!

[Butzzell]

S!

 

Paying attention to what 4 speed said, I have been looking over the bomber strategic bomber mission.  I have also talked with people online. There was the suggestion that the bombed target becomes a recon target and that you only get success when pictures come home. The basic consideration is the amount of resources and time needed for the goal to be achieved.  The enemy plane capture uses few resources and can be done either early or late.

 

Now for something completely different.

At present the Central side does one recon and the Entente does two recons. Should we add another recon to the central side?  An icon target, random, 6 pics needed. The icon would be one of the factories, bridges or aerodromes. Not necessarily an active target. In other words  the bridge to be bombed today is Bridge 4  but the Designated Recon is bridge 2. Having 12 icons on the map ( Factory, Bridge, Aerodrome ) the game would pick one of those 12 for our designated recon. It would be a way to get a recon done early or late with few resources.