Jump to content


Photo

How is there no Dunkirk thread yet?


  • Please log in to reply
18 replies to this topic

#1 JG-1_Trev5150

JG-1_Trev5150

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 305 posts
  • LocationYork, PA

Posted 23 July 2017 - 10:09 PM

The movie was everything I'd hoped it would be. I will be buying it on iTunes the minute it comes out, despite the fact that I know it'll be on HBO 10 times a week and on demand. 


  • Klaiber, Hess and HotleadColdfeet like this

sigpic82601_6.gif

"When the game is over, the king and the pawn go in the same box." 


#2 GenMarkof007

GenMarkof007

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 364 posts

Posted 23 July 2017 - 10:41 PM

I did like it... but I most say that something was missing for me?

Won't say much about it, so most of the JG1 guys can view it and make their own choice!

One of the movie critics was saying that he would be almost like Apocalypse Now or Thin Red Line?

Not so sure about that.

 

I must be an old World War II movie buff! ;)

 

Cheers

Gen



#3 HotleadColdfeet

HotleadColdfeet

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 816 posts
  • LocationSouth Dakota, United States

Posted 23 July 2017 - 10:54 PM

I'm super excited to see it! My brother and I will be going next week I think. 


"In the absence of orders, go find something and kill it." - Field Marshall Erwin Rommel

 

"Flying fighter aircraft in a war zone is an experience of hours and hours of routine, punctuated by moments of stark terror." - Unknown
 fcpq25c.jpg


#4 JG-1_Trev5150

JG-1_Trev5150

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 305 posts
  • LocationYork, PA

Posted 24 July 2017 - 12:21 AM

... but I most say that something was missing for me?

Exactly what made it so good (for me). All the extra baggage that would normally be there in a WWII flick from the 50's and 60's (The Longest Day, Devil's Brigade, and so on) or even today (Fury) is taken out of the picture (excessive character development, chatty dialogue, heavy handed feelings/emotions, coming of age, conflict resolution, what happened to lead up to the moment the movie begins, and so on) and we're given the people, the full weight of the situation they were in and how they dealt with it. We're inexorably forced deal with it with them, deftly enabled by maybe one of the most tense soundtracks ever, and a pace that kept me in it the whole time. I've become pretty jaded about movies, especially war flicks, and the this film was effective. Usually there's some point where my mind wanders or there's a part in the middle act where I become aware of my bladder. Not so this time. There's not a wasted minute of the 1h46m run time. 


  • HotleadColdfeet likes this

sigpic82601_6.gif

"When the game is over, the king and the pawn go in the same box." 


#5 Britchot

Britchot

    Advanced Member

  • Administrators
  • 3,729 posts
  • LocationLancaster, CA

Posted 24 July 2017 - 01:21 AM

Do you mean THIS THREAD, that you even posted in??  

 

I'm planning on watching a ripped copy out here soon.


  • JG-1_Trev5150 likes this

Britchot_R_tiny.png?dl=0

Britchot_O_tiny.png?dl=0

Britchot_FS_tiny.png?dl=0

   "Es ist noch ein Meister vom Himmel gefallen."


#6 JG-1_Trev5150

JG-1_Trev5150

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 305 posts
  • LocationYork, PA

Posted 24 July 2017 - 02:42 AM

Do you mean THIS THREAD, that you even posted in??  

 

I'm planning on watching a ripped copy out here soon.

LOL you know I mean a "OMG HOW BADASS WAS DUNKIRK WHAT" thread. 

 

Forgot about that other thread. Year old dead thread necromancer is not a core skill set. 


  • Britchot likes this

sigpic82601_6.gif

"When the game is over, the king and the pawn go in the same box." 


#7 Klaiber

Klaiber

    Advanced Member

  • Administrators
  • 9,183 posts

Posted 24 July 2017 - 03:22 AM

Just saw it tonight.  I really liked it a lot.  For me, it was easily a four star movie.  It was basically everything I wanted it to be.

 

There were only a few very nitpicky things that bugged me - and they're all accuracy based.  Very minor things, which I'm sure no one really cares about, but that I won't post here (for fear of giving away spoilers).

 

When people see it, we can talk on TS. :D


  • JG-1_Trev5150 and GenMarkof007 like this
Klaiber_tiny_R.png?dl=0
Klaiber_tiny_O.png?dl=0
Klaiber_tiny_FS.png?dl=0

Hals - und Beinbruch!

#8 danudet

danudet

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 341 posts
  • LocationKenosha, Wi

Posted 24 July 2017 - 04:03 AM

The wife and I will be going to see it on Tuesday


  • Lipfert likes this

FIFXXV_ribbon.jpg?dl=0FIF2017winter.png?dl=0FIF2017spring_small.png?dl=0


#9 Maushake

Maushake

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 567 posts

Posted 25 July 2017 - 06:28 PM

It got a thumbs-up from a veteran in Canada: http://globalnews.ca...movie-premiere/


  • Klaiber, Butzzell, JG-1_Trev5150 and 1 other like this

maus_JointSig.png?dl=0


#10 Klaiber

Klaiber

    Advanced Member

  • Administrators
  • 9,183 posts

Posted 25 July 2017 - 09:34 PM

I'm so glad that he got the chance to see the movie, and am truly moved by his account.


  • Maushake and HotleadColdfeet like this
Klaiber_tiny_R.png?dl=0
Klaiber_tiny_O.png?dl=0
Klaiber_tiny_FS.png?dl=0

Hals - und Beinbruch!

#11 HotleadColdfeet

HotleadColdfeet

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 816 posts
  • LocationSouth Dakota, United States

Posted 26 July 2017 - 02:43 AM

It got a thumbs-up from a veteran in Canada: http://globalnews.ca...movie-premiere/


Wow. Watching the interview sent chills up my spine. Thanks for sharing!
  • Maushake likes this

"In the absence of orders, go find something and kill it." - Field Marshall Erwin Rommel

 

"Flying fighter aircraft in a war zone is an experience of hours and hours of routine, punctuated by moments of stark terror." - Unknown
 fcpq25c.jpg


#12 HotleadColdfeet

HotleadColdfeet

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 816 posts
  • LocationSouth Dakota, United States

Posted 10 August 2017 - 10:03 PM

Well, I saw it!

 

I'd give it a 4/5 stars. The shooting style was excellent and those Spitfires were a joy to behold. I also really, really liked Tom Hardy in his role as a fighter pilot. 

 

I thought Hans Zimmer's music score was good, but maybe not as good as Interstellar or Inception. I also felt like there might not have been enough character development for my tastes. I like movies where you can embrace the characters and really root for them, but that honestly felt a little lacking here. 

 

What do you guys think?


"In the absence of orders, go find something and kill it." - Field Marshall Erwin Rommel

 

"Flying fighter aircraft in a war zone is an experience of hours and hours of routine, punctuated by moments of stark terror." - Unknown
 fcpq25c.jpg


#13 JG-1_Trev5150

JG-1_Trev5150

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 305 posts
  • LocationYork, PA

Posted 11 August 2017 - 01:54 AM

I like movies where you can embrace the characters and really root for them, but that honestly felt a little lacking here. 

 

What do you guys think?

That approach to character was very deliberate, and in my opinion for this story, an astute choice. Here's why:

 

The events depicted were experiences shared by hundreds of thousands. How do you home in on one or a few protagonists, and in the case of historical events, specific people? Do you create 'composite' characters and give them names? How far do you develop those characters histories? How much time on screen do you spend on that? Making up representative characters to tell the story of hundreds of thousands of equally heroic people that remain nameless? 

 

You leave names and personal history out of it entirely. This seems to work especially well for that particularly British stoicism. For instance, the pilot that Tom Hardy plays is every pilot in the war. Instead of tagging him with the name of a real-life pilot captured that day, I sat in the seat and wonder if that was maybe one of the characters from The Great Escape. Maybe Ashey-Pitt or Cavendish. Those grunts on the beach are all named Smith. They could have been anybody. 

 

I thought it was a novel approach to a difficult problem. 


  • Klaiber and HotleadColdfeet like this

sigpic82601_6.gif

"When the game is over, the king and the pawn go in the same box." 


#14 Luftritter

Luftritter

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,139 posts

Posted 11 August 2017 - 12:07 PM

WARNING: CONTAINS SPOILERS! READ NO FURTHER IF YOU HAVEN'T SEEN THE MOVIE AND WANT TO PRESERVE YOUR SURPRISE ABOUT EVENTS.

 

I saw it too, and although I thought it was a great movie, I didn't like the way they handled the flashbacks.  Since they were short term....no age difference in people, places or often circumstances, it was often confusing.  I mean, at the beginning of the movie, they used a subtitle to indicate the date and time; after that, nothing.  At times the time of day was a clue that the scene time had changed; but at other times, nothing.  Like when the pilot was flying around on his sortie, and they kept jumping back and forth in time in happenings during his flight; later in the movie it was finally more clear how the individual scenes were coming together, but earlier it wasn't clear at all.  Is this a new bomber he's found, or the same one?  Are these the same two 109s, or another pair that joined after the first two were shot down?  Is that the same ship, or another one of dozens that were out there?

 

In that respect I found it disjointed for a first time viewing.  It's the kind of movie that when you watch it a couple of times more, you figure out and see what's going on more clearly.  But in my opinion you shouldn't have to do that, it would have been very simple to put a quick time of day subtitle in there, and no, the cockpit views showing a glimpse of a clock weren't clear enough, and other scenes didn't even have that.

 

Also, although I did love to see those planes in combat, the maneuvering they did was pretty anemic....wouldn't you do a little more than repeatedly turn back and forth if you had somebody on your tail?  And I wanted to practically shout at the pilot: No, no! you're shooting too late! Lead him more and let him fly into the stream!  It was as if he could only hit the enemy when the enemy passed directly in front of him.  And that ammo sure lasted a suspiciously long time....and did you hear the rear gunner of the bomber firing back at our hero?  They made it sound like a 20 mm!  As if!

 

Also what happened to the pilot at the end seemed unnecessary.  Would you not make a landing approach that would end in front of friendlies?  And what was the implication with the bomber, that he shot it down while gliding engine-off? If so, that was one heck of a glide.

 

Nitpicky I guess.  In any case, a great movie, and far, far less stupid than other war movies with aviation that I've seen.  Definitely go see it, if you haven't already.


  • Klaiber and HotleadColdfeet like this

"People who believe they are ignorant of nothing have neither looked for, nor stumbled upon, the boundary between what is known and unknown in the universe."  -Neil deGrasse Tyson


#15 HotleadColdfeet

HotleadColdfeet

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 816 posts
  • LocationSouth Dakota, United States

Posted 11 August 2017 - 02:01 PM

Also, although I did love to see those planes in combat, the maneuvering they did was pretty anemic....wouldn't you do a little more than repeatedly turn back and forth if you had somebody on your tail?  And I wanted to practically shout at the pilot: No, no! you're shooting too late! Lead him more and let him fly into the stream!  It was as if he could only hit the enemy when the enemy passed directly in front of him.  And that ammo sure lasted a suspiciously long time....and did you hear the rear gunner of the bomber firing back at our hero?  They made it sound like a 20 mm!  As if!


Lol! I thought that exact same thing in the theater!

"In the absence of orders, go find something and kill it." - Field Marshall Erwin Rommel

 

"Flying fighter aircraft in a war zone is an experience of hours and hours of routine, punctuated by moments of stark terror." - Unknown
 fcpq25c.jpg


#16 Klaiber

Klaiber

    Advanced Member

  • Administrators
  • 9,183 posts

Posted 11 August 2017 - 02:10 PM

I really liked it (as I posted above).  4 stars from me.

 

But here are a list of Klaiber's nitpicks (specifically about the aircraft):

 

(**spoilers**)

 

(**spoilers**)

 

(**spoilers**)

 

(**spoilers**)

 

  • Bf 109Es didn't have yellow cowlings during in the Spring 1940 (around the time of the Battle of Dunkirk).
    • Yellow cowlings came during the Summer as recognition markings.
    • Nolan addresses this, and says that he know it's not historical
    • But that the yellow noses help the casual viewer identify the German aircraft.
  • The Bf 109Es are very clearly Buchóns (HA1112).
    • Nolan addresses this by saying that he didn't want to use CGI (unless he absolutely had to).
    • Thus, he needed to use a real aircraft, and that limited him to the Buchon.
    • Though, I don't understand why he couldn't have just edited the noses is post-production.
  • The dogfights are good, but are very tame and very anemic in numbers (as Luft mentioned above).
  • The Luftwaffe aircraft had no tactics.  Bf 109s were showing up one at a time.  The He 111s (actually a CASA 2.111) show up by themselves with almost no escort.
    • And this I understand too.  They're using real WW2 and post-WW2 aircraft to recreate these scenes.  And very little, if any, CGI (per Nolan's request).
    • Thus, the dogfights are going to be small and intimate because they just don't have enough air frames to put into the air.
    • 1969's Battle of Britain could never be made today without heavy CGI, for example.
    • And there isn't going to be extremely heavy maneuvering, for fear of damaging the warbirds.  The excitement is all created using cuts and editing tricks.
  • The Stuka's siren is wrong.
    • And this I understand too.
    • There are no Stuka's flying today.  I think the ones in the movie were either CGI or models.
    • And there is no modern recording of the Stuka's "Jericho trumpets."
      • The only recordings that exist come from German newsreels.  Or audio recordings during the war.
    • So, they had to recreate the noise using sound engineering: http://www.indiewire...war-1201860117/
      • "He built and recorded a siren in a 30-gallon steel drum, and then added some trade-secret effects to the recording that gave it the right intensity."
    • Additionally, every movie uses the "Jericho trumpet" to signal that an aircraft is diving, even though diving aircraft don't make that noise!
      • It's kind of like how pistols and rifles always are cocked in movies to show you the character means business, or how every sword pulled out of a sheath goes "shiiiing!".
      • Thus, even if they used the right "stuka sound", I recognize that we (a modern audience) may not even find it very scary.  We've been desensitized to it over 70 years of constantly hearing it.  To most people, that's just what aircraft sound like (even though it isn't).
  • Spitfires had 14 seconds of ammunition (Luft mentioned this above).
    • In the movie, they seemed to have much longer than that.
  • The shoot down at the end was impossible.
    • This is my one major gripe.  It took me out of the moment, just like the P-51s showing up just in the nick of time in Saving Private Ryan.
    • The angles and lead necessary to shoot down a diving Stuka from it's 3 o'clock are just insane.
    • If Tom Hardy was behind the aircraft, at it's low 6, then maybe.
    • But considering that Hardy was dead stick, and I go back to impossible.
  • The dead stick landing on the beach was completely wrong (and bugged me just as much as the Stuka shootdown).
    • He should have kept his flaps up, and his gear up, and belly landed.
    • Who lands with gear down on a sandy beach!?
    • I know that there was no CGI, and they can't damage the aircraft.
    • But Spit flaps are either up or down.  And once he dropped his gear, the Spit would fall like a brick.
    • He'd impact rather than land, and he'd rip his gear off (possibly leading to a fatal flip).

 

I have other nitpicks, but that's just off the top of my head.

 

I did really like it though!  4 stars from me.  I just like analyzing stuff like this. :)


  • HotleadColdfeet likes this
Klaiber_tiny_R.png?dl=0
Klaiber_tiny_O.png?dl=0
Klaiber_tiny_FS.png?dl=0

Hals - und Beinbruch!

#17 Luftritter

Luftritter

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,139 posts

Posted 12 August 2017 - 12:06 PM

Man, you should get paid as a consultant! What powers of observation! Nice work!

"People who believe they are ignorant of nothing have neither looked for, nor stumbled upon, the boundary between what is known and unknown in the universe."  -Neil deGrasse Tyson


#18 JG-1_Trev5150

JG-1_Trev5150

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 305 posts
  • LocationYork, PA

Posted 13 August 2017 - 12:27 AM

SPOILER DISCUSSION CONTINUES

 

OK if it's time to pick it apart after action style, cool.

- Reverb, delay and pitch shifting. "trade-secret effects" my dyin' ass LOL

 

- I do agree with a lot of the nitpicks. Klaiber's list of gripes alone equals an additional year and 50 million in fixes :D

 

I especially agree about the fighter sequences. Chris Nolan could have gotten any number of people to consult on how to make these fight sequences more sporty.

 

Instead we saw a lot of Han Solo maneuvers - drifting a little to the left, for instance. As I sat and watched I had to wonder if the guy getting shot at was even aware of the fact that he was getting shot at.

 

In games we take this for granted but even after flying measly 160 and 180 hp Cessnas and Diamonds I often wondered if I'd even notice rounds going by if they weren't tracers. I know how I abused flight characteristics in IL-2 and even with those primitive flight models I realize how easy it must really be to snap stall those planes.

 

Couple that with a lot of these pilots only having 30 hours in Spits flying against Germans with combat time against the Russians plus them trying to keep from running out of gas.

 

Still they could have shown us how hard these guys were working when maneuvering against each other. Instead they portrayed it as this ethereal, fluid quiet world when really it's lots of G, gas and oil smells and cranking your head around to check six and making lots of position calls on the radio. 

 

The beach landing scene was exasperating to watch. 

 

Why ditch on the beach? Ditch in the water right in front of the rescue fleet for the love of all that's holy!

 

If not that, then ditch on the beach toward the direction of the friendly force not the enemy force! He appeared to have plenty of energy to think about it for a second and then made the worst call in cinematic aviation history. Why would you give yourself to the Germans like that?

 

And yeah if landing on that surface, landing gear would have caused the inevitable divot flip cockpit smash and he should have been paste. No flaps, no gear, nice and easy, bleed the speed off until you're slow, let it fly onto the sand and have it stopped right in front of Admiral Whatshisnuts just in time for tea would have been just the ticket. 


  • Klaiber and HotleadColdfeet like this

sigpic82601_6.gif

"When the game is over, the king and the pawn go in the same box." 


#19 Klaiber

Klaiber

    Advanced Member

  • Administrators
  • 9,183 posts

Posted 13 August 2017 - 06:10 PM

Yeah, I loved the "trade secrets" quote too. :D

 

I mean, the siren isn't bad.  It's close:

 

Dunkirk example: https://youtu.be/rJePvN_4T_E?t=33s

 

But it's not quite right:

 

Real example: https://youtu.be/F8nX_nx6Qws

 

The real siren is more of a scream.  Nolan's is kind of a growl turned roar.


Klaiber_tiny_R.png?dl=0
Klaiber_tiny_O.png?dl=0
Klaiber_tiny_FS.png?dl=0

Hals - und Beinbruch!




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users