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#1 AngryGoat13

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 05:35 PM

I know a lot of people use response curves on the fokker dr1, but are they necessary? I've been flying the dr1 with stock settings since day 1. I just wanna know the pros and cons(if any) to adjusting the response curves. I'm stuck between taming the beast or manipulating the beast' s controls into domestication. I just don't wanna miss out on progressing my dridecker skills. thanks in advance.

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#2 JG-1_Trev5150

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 06:10 PM

I can't speak to the Fokker or RoF, but aside from a little bit of dead zone in my rudder pedals because center doesn't feel as center as it used to, I don't use curves in my flight controls and let the flight model be what ever it is. As long as full deflection of the physical stick matches what is happening in the cockpit I'm good. 


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#3 Luftritter

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 07:39 PM

.....I don't use curves in my flight controls and let the flight model be what ever it is. As long as full deflection of the physical stick matches what is happening in the cockpit I'm good. 

 

 

That's a common misconception.  Response curves don't change the flight model one little bit; neither do they change in any way what the control surfaces are able to do in the game, unless you want to count something silly like somebody who limited a control surface more than the game's allowed movement by making it taper off before it reached 100%; that would amount to pure ignorance.

 

Basically you can set your stick's spring center point to be at a certain spot within the range of the control's movement inside the game; and you can affect how quickly the game reacts to your stick's actual movements.  You can slow them down or speed them up in a continuously variable manner within the range of any axis; but you can never make them go farther than the game allows, nor change the surface area of the control, or anything like that.  Whatever is fully up, down, left or right in the game is the same for everybody no matter what.  There is no magic altering of a plane's FM.

 

Some sticks have physical trim wheels integrated into them.  That's one aspect of what you can do with response curves; but you're also able to accelerate and decelerate how fast it gets to 100%. It's no different than if you move the stick very slowly and accurately, or move it very fast.  It just enables you to have greater control by choosing where in the range of movement you want that kind of control.

 

I know plenty of people who insist they like the controls completely linear; that's cool, but all that really means is that you've grown used to that and don't want to change.  That's cool too.  But everybody should realize that the whole reason that controllability exists, why it was created, is because although all of the plane's control surfaces areas and angles of movement exactly duplicate the real planes, we can't duplicate the control column that was actually used to move those controls, and were maybe 5 times longer than we use, if we're using a standard gaming joystick (that doesn't include sims where modern jets basically use a short joystick because they were fly-by-wire or hydraulically boosted).  That makes every control movement you move 5 times faster, and 5 times less accurate, because the distance your gaming joystick actually moves is far less (consider the arc of the two different lengths), for the same amount of the airplane's control surface  movement.  It's like if you grabbed the control column in the real plane only 1/5th of the way up from the floor, and tried to control the plane that way, leaving out the increased physical movement difficulty.  So if you think the way that the plane responds to an entirely linear response curve is more correct, you're wrong; it's way jumpier and more sensitive.

 

Also, if you just happen to prefer flying straight and level with your stick in some half-pushed forward and slightly off center position to make the plane fly straight and level, and having your stick push against you all the time unless you're in a loop, that's your right too; but you don't have to.  Also if you want to let go of your controls while in a spin and have your plane do unpredictable things, you can have that too; or you can have it settle to a neutral attitude, and work it from there.

 

IMHO for the reasons listed above, you're actually flying the plane in an unnatural way compared to how the real plane would have reacted.  Unfortunately the response curves can only mitigate the problem, but can't completely cure it.  The only true cure would be to have a joystick that was exactly the same length as the real one was, and have your seat height off of the floor exactly the same, all that; and even then, the physical difficulty aspect of moving the controls would still be completely lost....the resistance of the plane's control surfaces against your own movements.


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#4 JG-1_Trev5150

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 07:46 PM

All I'm saying is I want my stick to be at 45 degrees deflection and have it be at 45 degrees in the airplane, a 1:1 match, no curve. I didn't say that curve was affecting the flight model. It is however definitely changing the way physical stick movement translates to movement as it's represented in the sim. I'm saying that my actual stick deflection should match the stick deflection represented by the simulator, and by extension the flight model of the aircraft should represent what is supposed to happen when I place the control input in that position at the rate that I moved it. A curve changes that 1:1 relationship. As an IRL pilot I know every well that what actually happens when a control surface is deflected is far from linear.

 

I'm just stating a preference. I hope that's more clear. 


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#5 JG-1_Trev5150

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 07:49 PM

deleted. 


 


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#6 Luftritter

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 08:02 PM

All I'm saying is I want my stick to be at 45 degrees deflection and have it be at 45 degrees in the airplane, a 1:1 match, no curve. I didn't say that curve was affecting the flight model. It is however definitely changing the way physical stick movement translates to movement as it's represented in the sim. I'm saying that my actual stick deflection should match the stick deflection represented by the simulator, and by extension the flight model of the aircraft should represent what is supposed to happen when I place the control input in that position at the rate that I moved it. A curve changes that 1:1 relationship. As an IRL pilot I know every well that what actually happens when a control surface is deflected is far from linear.

 

I'm just stating a preference. I hope that's more clear. 

 

What you're saying is true.  The curves are just an attempt to regain what is lost by translating the real plane into a sim.  It's little different than using zoom to view things within the sim, which many think is cheating; but it's just another attempt to regain some of the capability that is lost through looking through a box who's field of view is far less than the human eye can see in RL.

 

You're a good fellow Trev. No offense intended.

 

S!


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#7 Moxy

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 08:04 PM

Goat

 

For like RoF, I re-center, or trim the elevators in the "curves" Gui.

Pushing "my" stick forward all the time...well it just hurts. lol

personal preference, try and check it out, and learn and see if it works for you.

If setting curves, is an advantage for you, take it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mox


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#8 JG-1_Trev5150

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 08:50 PM

What you're saying is true.  The curves are just an attempt to regain what is lost by translating the real plane into a sim.  It's little different than using zoom to view things within the sim, which many think is cheating; but it's just another attempt to regain some of the capability that is lost through looking through a box who's field of view is far less than the human eye can see in RL.

 

You're a good fellow Trev. No offense intended.

 

S!

I'm good, dude.

 

On the topic of zoom ... yeah I justify that by the fact that what's being put in front of my eyes by monitors (Oculus in particular) isn't close to what I would able to resolve with my eyes and brain and the system needs that little bit of help. That said:

1 - I usually forget that I have it mapped and do without. 

2 - "Resolve with my eyes and brain" refers to someone with normal vision, which I lack and ended my flying career because of. 


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#9 Luftritter

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Posted 19 February 2018 - 02:37 PM

I'm good, dude.... 

 

I'm glad.   :)

 

I apologize for using a sledge hammer to pound in a tack.

 

To everybody else: logic is a great thing, but there are more tactful ways of using it than I did.  Even though I believe the logic is sound, it's not worth offending anybody even the tiniest little bit.

 

Also, as of late, I can see now that I'm far in the minority in my opinions concerning response curves; so I need to stop pushing them.  To everybody, I surrender, without any hard feelings at all.  My goal was to help others improve in RoF, but I went about it in the wrong way.

 

S!  -_-  (that emoji is supposed to be humility)  


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