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Trouble: Feature update to Windows 10, version 1803


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#1 Luftritter

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Posted 05 May 2018 - 01:58 PM

All, I recently received an update that caused me a lot of trouble.  The Windows update in the title is a major update which is basically a new version of Windows 10.  The update failed to install properly two separate times, giving the following error code:  0xc1900101.  The machine then reverted back to it's previous revision level and began to work correctly.

 

Researching the error code showed that it means there was some driver problem or incompatibility.  Recommended action was to disconnect all USB devices except for keyboard and mouse.  I tried doing this, but the update failed again in the same way.  Looking at the device manager, even though the devices were disconnected, there were still devices shown there, especially CH Products devices; so I uninstalled them in the device manager and rebooted.  However, the devices self installed themselves again, even though nothing was connected to the computer anymore.  Then I realized that I would have to uninstall the CH Control Manager software in order to remove those from the registry; so I did this too.

 

Upon reboot, the CH Products heading was gone, but there was now an "unknown device" which the computer set up.  I have no idea how that was possible, since all hardware and software had theoretically been removed.  In any case, I uninstalled the "unknown device" in the device manager; then I attempted the Windows update again.  Again, it failed in exactly the same way.

 

At this point, I could see it wasn't going to work no matter what I could do.  I had screwed up my computer pretty thoroughly in trying to get it to work.  So, I decided to do a recovery and connected my backup drive.  The recovery failed because it said that a required device was missing.  So, I reconnected all of the equipment that I had previously disconnected.  Windows recognized all of the hardware, but of course it wasn't set up or working like before.

 

At this point I decided it was better to do a system image restore, because for some reason, the most recent restore point was from January of this year.  So I initiated a recovery restart to bring up the troubleshooting options, and initiated an image restore.  The image restoration failed also, saying that something on my computer wasn't working properly, and needed repair.  Then it had a couple of options in the screen, but they all just got me back to the same point again, except the one that entered the BIOS.  I went into the BIOS, changed nothing, and exited it.  My only goal was to get Windows to start normally again.

 

Windows did start up again in it's previous form.  Then I manually reinstalled all of the software that I had removed, and also reconfigured it to work.  Of course, the game controller ID's had changed, so I tried the JoyID program that Dudley had suggested.  Although it did seem to work inside the JoyID program, and I saved the configuration and rebooted, the ID's inside of RoF did not seem to change; instead they retained whatever ID they were trying to be in RoF.  In fact, the first time that I started the game, none of the controllers would register at all; but the second time I started the game, I was able to at least get a controller to register when I went to enter it in a game function.  So of course I updated my entire controls maps in order for the game to see the controllers as they now were identified.

 

I questioned why the update was giving so much trouble and why I was getting it now.  I researched online and found that they call this the "April update", so obviously I was one of the earlier recipients.  Every time I start my computer, it tells me that I need this update; and it has been attempted and failed 4 different times.  Checking into the update settings, I found an advanced setting which showed that I was set to receive feature update at this level: "Semi-Annual Channel (Targeted)" which means that I would receive updates earlier than most people.  I reset that setting to "Semi-Annual Channel" (not "Targeted"), which was the only other choice.  That makes it so that theoretically you get the update later, once the update is "ready for widespread use in organizations"; meaning, later.  Apparently Microsoft kind of uses the earliest cases as guinea pigs and works out the bugs as the updates progress; so I guess I'm a guinea pig that died.

 

I then set the updater to pause all updates.  It will only let you do this for a period of 32 days.  After that you can't pause updates again until after you apply all updates.  After that I guess I'll have to just let it tell me I need updates, but not download and install them.  I'm not going to try to run the update again until about August or so; and when I do, I'm not going to remove or uninstall anything to try to make it work.  Every other update that I've gotten in the past has worked without any special procedures.  I did have trouble with one on my wife's laptop (wireless), but I solved that by getting the update through a direct download and installing it that way.

 

Bottom line is that I'm back in business; but if any of you see this update coming your way, be wary....very wary.

 

S!


"People who believe they are ignorant of nothing have neither looked for, nor stumbled upon, the boundary between what is known and unknown in the universe." -Neil deGrasse Tyson

#2 Schäfer

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Posted 05 May 2018 - 11:14 PM

Thanks for the heads up Luft. Good old M$ at it again. Oh wait, its all meant to be seamless plug and play. lol


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#3 Luftritter

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Posted 05 May 2018 - 11:34 PM

To add to it all, I checked my wife's laptop and the update of course showed up there....and immediately began to install.

 

Strangely enough, her machine didn't have the same options for controlling updates like mine did; no idea why.  Bottom line: there was nothing I could do to stop it, once it started.  So I just let it run to see what happened with her machine.

 

It errored out also.  The error code was different than the one I had.  There is no way to pause updates on her machine, like I could on mine.  So it will just continue to say it needs updating, I guess.  The only real control that you have on a machine like hers is to delay the restart to a specific day and time.

 

Seriously, what possible problem should you have on a machine like an HP laptop that has limited or no capability to have varying components?  The drivers must be completely standard I would think....and what other problem should you have?

 

Approach with extreme caution.

 

<_<

 

I did run across this, which might eventually be of some help...or not.  Microsoft Update Support


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#4 Luftritter

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Posted 21 July 2018 - 09:47 PM

Update on this.  The update has again come around, needing to be installed.  There has been no improvement in their process; it still fails to install in the same way.  I got with Microsoft Support and even had 2 technicians use remote support in order to try to get it to install correctly.  The first one started checking compatibility and said my MSI X99S SLI Krait Edition motherboard is NOT COMPATIBLE.  Seriously?  I installed Win 10 on it from the time it was brand new, and it's worked since that time flawlessly, including every single MS update that's come out before the April "feature update".  Now all of a sudden it's incompatible?  It's not even old!  In the middle of all those questions, the first tech dropped off line, and I had to start over with a new tech.

 

The next tech checked the updates and then immediately began to download an ISO file to install the update directly.  She was so sure it would work that she asked me to close the ticket before it was even installed.  I said we'll see about that after it reboots successfully in version 1803.  Well, the update killed the remote link of course, but she said she'd call back on the phone in 30 minutes.  Meanwhile, the installation reached 80% or so and then needed to reboot.  When it did, it acted exactly as it had done all the previous times.  The blue Window comes on the screen, without any progress balls circling; then up comes a plain blue screen like a desktop without anything on it at all.  At that point it sits that way without anything happening for about 5 minutes or so.  Then the machine powers down to the off state.  When you power it back on, the old version 1709 Windows starts back up without a problem, and you get a message stating that the update failed to install.  Checking further, you can see in the installed updates another failed attempt at version 1803. It's been a couple of hours now since the last tech dropped off line, and I can see I'm not going to get a call back....not that it would do any good anyway.

 

I have tried every damned thing I can think off; but the bottom line is that it just seems like it's never going to install on this machine.  What does one do now?  Build a new machine?

 

Unbelievable.  I can only let it sit telling me every day that I "need updates", until such time as it tries to force me to do it again....don't know how long that can go on.  In any case, I may be out of business at any time depending on how this is going to act.

 

:(


"People who believe they are ignorant of nothing have neither looked for, nor stumbled upon, the boundary between what is known and unknown in the universe." -Neil deGrasse Tyson

#5 Vonrd

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Posted 21 July 2018 - 10:49 PM

Good Lord! So sorry Luft. That has got to be maddening. If I was savvy enough to dump Mal-o-Soft for Linux I would seriously consider it. (Would our games work on it I wonder?).


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#6 Snaggle

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Posted 22 July 2018 - 06:08 PM

Luft,

 

You can try these if you haven't already

 

https://www.pcworld....10-updates.html

 

https://www.computer...rsion-1803.html

 

https://www.wintips....ils-to-install/


S!

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#7 Luftritter

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Posted 22 July 2018 - 09:23 PM

 

That's great info, many thanks, Snaggle!  Wish I had talked to you earlier.

 

I used info from the first link to run gpedit and disable windows updates for now (although in the example, it is actually telling how to enable them).  And, although I had already told Windows or MS to not give me feature updates until later, I did set the time period to 365 days (max), so that will help.

 

As for the other troubleshooting options, I did try already or at least think about whether they made any sense; I did run the troubleshooter.  For one, there is little or no chance that I have an update database error, I have downloaded the thing at least 8-10 times and it does the same thing every time.  However. the last link you gave me does describe my problem exactly....thanks!  However, I do not have any 3rd party anti-virus software; I only have what Microsoft uses.  I also have tried to disconnect any and all external USB devices.  It did not make a difference.  I did run the troubleshooter; but in addition to skipping the database errors, I also have all of the previous updates (stack) which they are talking about.  No help.  I have also run DISM and chkdisk successfully as administrator from a command prompt, and whether they did anything or not, I doubt they found any errors; but if they did, they were fixed.

 

As for the rest, I do not know what an "In Place Upgrade" is, but I will look into it; or I will try to force the upgrade, if it is anything different than using the ISO file to install, which already failed in the same manner as all the rest of the tries.

 

Again, many, many thanks for the info!  This is why we post here!  I will keep at it (I still have the ISO file), when I have time.  I guess I'm pretty sure it would work from a clean install, but have been unwilling to wipe everything and start over, yet.  It's daunting to imagine having to reinstall everything and get my sims working again, along with everything else.

 

S!


"People who believe they are ignorant of nothing have neither looked for, nor stumbled upon, the boundary between what is known and unknown in the universe." -Neil deGrasse Tyson

#8 Pragr

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Posted 23 July 2018 - 09:14 AM

There should be an option to disable Windows updates definitely. You "simply" switch the Windows Update service off.

 

https://www.easeus.c...lly-update.html

 

But there is one issue anyway. Microsoft is smuggling other services, which allow the automatic updates again, into your PC from time to time. One of known application acting this way is Microsoft: Update Assistant. But there are more of them. So the general advice shall be NEVER USE WINDOWS X. That system is in fact even worse than Windows Vista or Windows 8.


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#9 Luftritter

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Posted 21 September 2018 - 04:18 PM

UPDATE: PROBLEM SOLVED!!

 

Going back to the original problem indications (error code = driver problem) I began to go to MSI support and download all new, most current drivers and also BIOS.  The BIOS had evolved several newer versions than I had installed.  After updating to the newest BIOS version, upon rebooting I noticed that it was now showing the BIOS splash screen, and realized that the BIOS settings had reverted to defaults, which was no problem for me, since the only thing I had set differently in the past was to enable "Fast Boot", which among other things, skipped the splash screen.  More on this later....

 

Then I updated all of the motherboard drivers, and also the video driver, and also checked the Samsung Magician software for the SSD's, which did not have any more current versions or NVMe drivers.  In the course of doing this, I learned a lot about Intel Rapid Storage drivers, Intel Turbo Boost Max drivers, and Intel Management Engine drivers; what they do, and whether they applied to my rig or not.  In any case, it took a while.  Still kind of doubting that any of this would change anything, I began to research the MSI forums using the search feature for items related to Windows ver. 1709 to 1803 update issues.

 

As you might guess, there were a million different topics, and none seemed to relate directly to me.  But eventually I did skim one with a different updating issue, but mentioned the BIOS setting of "Fast Boot", which does skip the loading of certain drivers during the boot process....hmmm.....driver issues?  A bulb began to faintly glow in my brain.....error code 0xc1900101 means driver issues....not necessarily a bad driver, but maybe it just couldn't load one or more?

 

Knowing that the setting was now the standard default boot behavior already, I took the plunge and re-enabled the auto-updates using the "gpedit" tool, and forced it to check for, download and install the 1803 update.  Well after the first reboot I could see that it was acting differently than all of the other times it attempted the update; and it went through the entire update procedure successfully.  Yeah!

 

So obviously I have an MSI motherboard, but the "Fast Boot" settings are available on other manufacturer's boards too.  In my BIOS, it's located in the "Windows feature" section of the BIOS, not in the "Boot" section.  There are 3 levels of boot speed:

 

1) Both disabled (default)  <  current setting.

2) Fast Boot (enables Windows Fast Boot feature)  < this is not explained any further, but apparently skips loading certain drivers during the boot process until later.  It is the setting I had been using, and it definitely speeds up the boot.

3) MSI Fast Boot (Fastest possible boot. Does not load USB, PS2 or SATA devices during the boot process)  < I never used that setting.

 

So let this be a lesson to all.  I never had a problem with any updates using the Fast Boot setting, until the 1803 update.  BIOS settings can affect software updates, even if they're not obvious, such as having a device disabled.  I have now rejoined the masses of Windows auto-update-checking minions with a fully up-to-date PC.  Now I am sure I'll need to repair all of my controls maps in both RoF and IL2 because of changed controller ID's before I am game-ready again. 

 

S!


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#10 Snaggle

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Posted 21 September 2018 - 04:33 PM

Wonderful news!!


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#11 Luftritter

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Posted 21 September 2018 - 04:42 PM

Wonderful news!!

 

Special thanks to Snaggle for slogging through the drivers with me.  It turned out, in addition to all of the standard drivers:

 

1) Intel Management Engine (ME):  Needed.  Lots of things it does that are required.

2) Intel Turbo Boost Max Technology:  Not applicable.  Does apply to my motherboard, but only if processors of the 68xx, 69xx, 78xx, 79xx families are used (Broadwell, etc.).  I have a i7-5930K (Haswell).

3) Intel Rapid Storage driver:  Not needed.  ACPI is set in BIOS, and I don't use RAID.

 

Thanks for the help, it got me on the right road!

 

S! 


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#12 Klaiber

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Posted 21 September 2018 - 04:48 PM

That's really great news Luft!  I had been wondering how you were making out with this problem.


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#13 Razwald

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Posted 22 September 2018 - 12:59 PM

Special thanks to Snaggle for slogging through the drivers with me.  It turned out, in addition to all of the standard drivers:

 

1) Intel Management Engine (ME):  Needed.  Lots of things it does that are required.

2) Intel Turbo Boost Max Technology:  Not applicable.  Does apply to my motherboard, but only if processors of the 68xx, 69xx, 78xx, 79xx families are used (Broadwell, etc.).  I have a i7-5930K (Haswell).

3) Intel Rapid Storage driver:  Not needed.  ACPI is set in BIOS, and I don't use RAID.

 

Thanks for the help, it got me on the right road!

 

S! 

 

Good stuff to know, I just updated my motherboard drivers I have a MSI board and I used the live scan to update. The live scan said I don't have  Intel Turbo Boost Max Technology installed but in my tool bar its there. So do I have I have the software installed and not the drivers? 


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#14 Luftritter

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Posted 23 September 2018 - 01:27 PM

First off, I wouldn't depend on the MSI live update utility to get your drivers. I also installed and tried it, but it only showed 1 driver for updating, when there were others that could have been. Also in addition to that shows utilities... not just ones that apply to your board, but also unnecessary, redundant, frivolous and even non-MSI apps. I've come to the conclusion the best thing to do is to search your board, go to the support>downloads page for your board, then save a short cut in your browser for that. The list is more comprehensive and there is some explanation as to the purpose of the items. Still it is not all clear, and for things that you aren't completely sure of, a Google search helps a lot but even there critical info can be amazingly obscure, such as the processor type applicability.

In your case there's a couple of possibilities. Main thing is to look at Control Panel > Programs listing to see whether it's listed there.  There is a 2.0 version and a 3.0 version; maybe you have 2.0. I've read they don't do the same thing, you can Google the differences. Also, in order for the drivers/software to do anything or work, you need to have "Intel Turbo Boost Technology" enabled in your BIOS. In my BIOS, this is enabled by default... but you should probably check. I've even read some people claiming that you have to have it enabled when you installed Windows, or it may never work. I've also read repeatedly that you must uninstall the old version first, and not install the new version over top of what you have.

Apparently, in order to tell if it's actually working, there's a way to see what the current CPU multiplier is, and you should see it go up under load. The 3.0 version figures out which is your fastest core, and assigns the heaviest processing to that. They say it can make up to a 15% difference in speed. I guess that's where th "max" comes in.

You can get the drivers/utility from MSI of course, but also directly from Intel. I did notice extra stuff in MSI's package compared to Intel's, so I probably would have installed that if it had applied to me.

One other confusing thing....on my BIOS at MSI, the version number is different than the download file name. I think they leave off a zero on the download file name. So for example, you might have version 1 of your BIOS, which would be called *.10 if you checked it. Then if you checked online, you might see a download file name of *.9 there, making you think that your version is newer. However, if you were to download and install that *.9 file, it would be BIOS version *.90 when completed, which is 8 versions newer than you had.  Best thing to do might be to download whatever latest zip file is posted, then look inside the zip file; there you should see the actual version BIOS file used.

Confusing much?


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