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#1 Barton

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Posted 19 August 2018 - 10:11 PM


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#2 Vonrd

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Posted 20 August 2018 - 01:05 AM

Did the blanked out name say "II/.JG1 Barton shot down II/.JG1 Vonrd"?   :rolleyes:    Just kidding... even I have come to know better...  Nice vid Barton.


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#3 Barton

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Posted 20 August 2018 - 02:25 AM

LOL  it wasn't anyone I'm familiar with.



#4 Klaiber

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Posted 20 August 2018 - 06:22 AM

Very nice video Barton.


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#5 Luftritter

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Posted 20 August 2018 - 12:54 PM

Could you describe your philosophy when it comes to using the gun sight? At times even any part of the outer circle is not visible on the glass, and yet you are still shooting accurately, most of the time at quite long distances. My only guess is that you might judge strictly by the tracers, but that doesn't seem likely since your shots are right on the money at the beginning of each burst. Perhaps you use an area of the windscreen which you have figured out, when viewing angles are high.

It would make a good subject for it's own video, if you haven't already made one.

The truth is I haven't been using all 6 dof for so long, I can't even fathom how I'm going to convert back, if operating that way proves to be a significant handicap on the WWII side.
"People who believe they are ignorant of nothing have neither looked for, nor stumbled upon, the boundary between what is known and unknown in the universe." -Neil deGrasse Tyson

#6 Shadepiece

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Posted 20 August 2018 - 03:17 PM

This smells heavily of inexperienced pilot, but the video was really very good! Something like that would have helped me when I was just trying to understand energy states.
Fire only at close range, and only when your opponent is properly in your sights.

-Hauptmann Oswald Boelcke, Jasta 2

#7 Barton

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Posted 20 August 2018 - 10:46 PM

My aiming without the gunsight started in IL-2 1946 with the Fw-190. When you hit the button to get the “aim down sights” view you were low and to the right in the cockpit. It is terrible for deflection shots as just about any degree of deflection puts the enemy plane below your widscreen and out of view. I got away from this by positioning my pilots head so the the center of the reticle was at the top left corner of the collimator glass. This turned the top left corner of the glass itself into a half sight (having the bottom half of the sight as the left edge and the right horizontal as the top). This gave much better visibility. As an unforeseen side effect it also trained me to be able to visualize where my shots would land without it completely because if my head moved to the left I wouldn’t have any reference at all. I started to use parts of the plane outside of my cockpit, namely the two cowl mounted MG, to reference my aim. Once I started doing that it opened up a whole new can of worms. I was able to make shots and track planes you wouldn’t even be able to see while looking down the sight. If you look up some of my old montage videos from back then, specifically the “rock n rolling scissors” videos, you’ll see what I’m talking about.

Steadily I found it a beneficial trade off of giving up sight of the reticle and gaining sight of the enemy plane. It’s much easier to aim without view of the gunsight than it is without view of the enemy.

#8 Luftritter

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Posted 20 August 2018 - 11:04 PM

Thanks for your explanation. Your last paragraph says a lot. It seems you've achieved a symmetry between your TIR movement and in-game gun tracking. Did you find it difficult at all to transition at all from the old IL2 to the new one, with respect to this same aiming ability? Is there anything that you consider key to achieving that?
"People who believe they are ignorant of nothing have neither looked for, nor stumbled upon, the boundary between what is known and unknown in the universe." -Neil deGrasse Tyson

#9 Barton

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Posted 20 August 2018 - 11:35 PM

It was very difficult at first but that was the early stages of IL-2 BoS and they didn’t have a lot right with the game. Of course I can’t completely blame my failing on the devs. I did eventually start to pick it back up again.

The biggest key in my opinion is the change in paradigm from aiming your guns like one would aim a rifle and aiming the way a falcon would. Instead of moving the guns to shoot at a target you maneuver the plane as a whole to attack your prey. In the latter you feel more at one with the machine. This way both flying and fighting feels more natural and intuitive.

Of course if I can see both my gunsight and the enemy I will try to use the sight, especially for longer shots, but if I have to sacrifice my view of one or the other I will take seeing the enemy every time.

#10 Luftritter

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Posted 21 August 2018 - 11:38 AM

The inevitable question is, what do you set your convergence to?
"People who believe they are ignorant of nothing have neither looked for, nor stumbled upon, the boundary between what is known and unknown in the universe." -Neil deGrasse Tyson

#11 Barton

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Posted 21 August 2018 - 12:08 PM

250 meters

#12 Shadepiece

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Posted 21 August 2018 - 02:10 PM

Wow, I have gone through just about every convergence there is, and that is one topic that I have burned out on haha! I've tried everything over the years, and honestly I find vertical convergence much more important to how I aim than horizontal. Personally, I like 400. It just seems to be most in line with what I've gotten used to holding in a deflection shot. If anyone is interested in taking a look at a gunnery guide I made a couple years back I've posted it below. I don't mean to take over the thread, but it seems pretty relevant.

https://youtu.be/p2-fMSyZiZo
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Fire only at close range, and only when your opponent is properly in your sights.

-Hauptmann Oswald Boelcke, Jasta 2

#13 Barton

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Posted 21 August 2018 - 02:16 PM

I used to run 500 meter convergence in the Bf-109 and other planes with hub and cowl mounted guns (like most Russian planes). I found that the extreme elevation put the bullets out further up at the range where I typically shoot (150-300 meters) and I could get hits with less deflection. I stopped doing that because it’s tedious to try to change it every time in IL-2 GB

#14 Jocassee

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Posted 21 August 2018 - 08:18 PM

 

 

 It’s much easier to aim without view of the gunsight than it is without view of the enemy. 

 

I feel like this needs to go in the canon of Quoteable Quotes of Dogfighting.

 

Barton, like you, I have been experimenting shooting without the glass, looking over the nose of the plane. I find it quite intuitive, but I'm without TrackIR. I would say fully half my kills so far have been using no glass or half glass. 


"It’s much easier to aim without view of the gunsight than it is without view of the enemy. " ~ Barton

#15 Luftritter

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Posted 21 August 2018 - 09:18 PM

My thanks to all of you; great video, SP! I think for my own purposes, I'll try the longer vertical convergence, to start with.
"People who believe they are ignorant of nothing have neither looked for, nor stumbled upon, the boundary between what is known and unknown in the universe." -Neil deGrasse Tyson




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