Jump to content


Photo

The Virpil thread


  • Please log in to reply
34 replies to this topic

#1 Luftritter

Luftritter

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,231 posts
  • LocationMichigan, United States

Posted 11 November 2018 - 10:50 PM

I just received my WarBRD joystick base, with Mongoose T-50 grip; and also my T-50 Throttle.  Yeah, it took quite a while, but in general, the Virpil company seems able to deliver products that you might want better than the VKB company.  If anything that you want is "out of stock", just like with VKB, you must apply to receive e-mail notification as soon as stock becomes available.  The difference between VKB and Virpil, in my own experience, is that with VKB, bottom line, is that you'll never be able to actually get one.  That means, if you get a notification from VKB that their product is available, by the time that you are able to get online and order one, it will already be too late because of the very small quantities they seem to deal in (a dozen or so per batch?).

 

Although Virpil did change very recently from the pre-order system to email notifications, just like VKB, the difference seems to be that you can actually acquire what you're waiting for, if you act in a timely fashion; at least that was my experience.

 

Regardless of all that, I was surprised that a few pilots in JG1 (Razwald, Hook, Loopy) were at least somewhat interested in at least some of the Virpil products, so I'll post some preliminary information here.  I also know Vonrd had mentioned this to me in the past.  I will say that I am delaying actually installing and using the equipment because I don't want to attempt all of that in the middle of an FiF campaign.  However, that doesn't prevent me from setting up mechanical preferences, and planning how I will physically install the new units in a way that will most closely resemble what I have now (CH Products).

 

First off, basic dimensions.  Of course I can now give you any dimensions you ask for, the ones that concern me most are the ones that relate to what I have right now.  For example: how high will my hand be on the new stick, compared to the old stick, and what physical position will I be able to install it in (i.e. the center or fulcrum of the stick's movement, compared to my original.

 

For starters, the Virpil stick is obviously much higher than my original stick, plus it has a much wider "footprint".  To begin with, the "footprint" is so wide because it's made for people to use as a non-attached base with only rubber feet (included) that would keep it from tipping during use.  The base plate included with the "WarBRD" base does have holes in it that you could use to screw-mount the stick to your stable surface, but those holes are unnecessarily far apart since they are exactly where the rubber pads for a non-mounted installation would be.  Therefore, if you want a screw-mounted desktop installation, the included base takes up far too much room, considering other hardware (mouse, keyboard, throttle) that you might want near it.  Because of that, I have determined that for my own installation, I will cut down the base plate greatly and make new screw hole locations that are much further inboard.

 

In my opinion, the best frame of reference for how one stick feels with respect to another, is the hand rest height and position.  If you can duplicate that, you can have a very similar starting point to use and compare to.  By cutting down the too-wide base plate, I can position my new stick with the fulcrum of movement in exactly the same place as my old one, without having any extra base-plate sticking out beyond the edge of my mounting surface, or intruding in the areas that my mouse pad, throttle and keyboard might be.  The following is a comparison between my old stick and new one, with regard to the height of the hand rest.

 

Original CH rest: 4-1/4 inches above the mounting surface

 

IMG-20181111-162648.jpg

 

Virpil rest, adjusted to my preference: 7-7/8 inches above the mounting surface:

 

IMG-20181111-162816.jpg

 

In order for me to equalize this distance, I will need to lower the new stick accordingly.  To do so, I will first trim down the base plate from it's original size in the following manner (those areas outside of the ruled areas will be removed, and screw holes drilled):

 

IMG-20181111-162909.jpg

 

Then, I will cut a hole in my keyboard tray that will match the shape of the WarBRD base as exactly as possible.  Then, the stick will actually be mounted to the BOTTOM of the keyboard tray, thus lowering it.  In fact, blocks of wood can be added between the bottom of the keyboard tray and the altered base, thus lowering it further.  By doing this I hope to come as close as I can to achieving the original height of the stick rest, in the exact same position as the old one was.

 

T-50 Throttle:

 

The dimensions of the new throttle are:  9-5/8 inches deep, by 6-3/4 inches wide. The height of the highest part of the throttle handle is:  7-1/2 inches high.

 

IMG-20181111-163907.jpg

 

The height of my original throttle quadrant was: 6-1/2 inches high.

 

IMG-20181111-164051.jpg

 

By similarly mounting the new throttle base to the underside of the keyboard tray mounting surface, I will achieve a similar height and position, to the extent possible, as the old throttle quadrant had.

 

At this point, you may be asking yourself, why the heck doesn't he just use the Virpil edge-mount clamp fixtures that are specifically made for this hardware.  Well, that hardware pushes the stick, and especially the throttle, well outward from the edge of the mounting surface.  For me, that would mean that I would be much farther back from my screen (and therefore my TIR); also, since the mounting hardware extends well below the mounting surface (and is then adjusted up as needed), it basically has to have the stick mounted BETWEEN your legs in a center position.  The throttle, being mounted on an exact same clamp with different adapter, extends much farther out than even the stick does; therefore, it basically has to be beside you instead of in front of you.

 

I don't like any of those compromises.  If in the future I wanted to buy and use joystick extensions, I would be forced to use the lowered, center-mount hardware.  However, for now I think I'll be a lot happier with a side-by-side installation on top of the edge of my keyboard tray, just like my old hardware was.

 

More to come when actual physical installation begins.

 

S!


  • Klaiber, Snaggle and HotleadColdfeet like this
"People who believe they are ignorant of nothing have neither looked for, nor stumbled upon, the boundary between what is known and unknown in the universe." -Neil deGrasse Tyson

#2 Pfeil

Pfeil

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 178 posts
  • LocationJasta 6

Posted 12 November 2018 - 12:17 PM

The harware looks good. I decided against Virpil because the problems with ordering used to be much worse.

Mayby this could help with your table instalation?

https://monstertechusa.com/


iGKzmH7.jpg1kQMDa.png


#3 Luftritter

Luftritter

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,231 posts
  • LocationMichigan, United States

Posted 12 November 2018 - 02:10 PM

The harware looks good. I decided against Virpil because the problems with ordering used to be much worse.

Mayby this could help with your table instalation?

https://monstertechusa.com/

 

 

Those are VERY nice....and I do prefer the Monster mounts over the Virpil ones.  If I had a table that was wide enough, it would be possible for me to use those (in theory).  However, a couple of problems prevent that.  Number 1, they don't seem to have an adapter for the Virpil WarBRD joystick base; they have one for the Virpil T-50 joystick base, but looking at that, it doesn't appear that it would work for my base.  It is possible that an adapter for the TMW would work for me, though; we'd have to figure that out.  Number two, if you look at the pictures of the mount installations on the Monster website, you can see that the person is sitting BETWEEN the throttle and joystick mounts, with those units outboard of his chair arms and hands.  First off, I don't prefer to have my hands that far apart and the units not in front of my natural hand positions.  Second, the keyboard tray that I'm using, and the table it attaches to, are not that wide in the first place; so the mounts would be hitting my thighs and interfering with my pedal movements.  Also, just like the Virpil table mounts, they all push everything back from the edge of the table toward you and away from the screen.  I'd have to reposition my rigidly mounted pedals, move the screen toward me, and/or push the keyboard tray inward (and lock it in place somehow) in order to compensate for everything being so much further back.

 

Those are all things that could be done, if I had no other choice; but I do, and I think in the end I'll like what I've planned better than those choices.

 

Thanks for the link, I'm going to bookmark it regardless, for the future!

 

S! 


"People who believe they are ignorant of nothing have neither looked for, nor stumbled upon, the boundary between what is known and unknown in the universe." -Neil deGrasse Tyson

#4 Luftritter

Luftritter

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,231 posts
  • LocationMichigan, United States

Posted 12 November 2018 - 03:06 PM

On a related subject, I'm pretty sure that the grips and bases on the Thrustmaster Warthog and the Virpil line are interchangeable.  So if you're a TMW user that likes your grip but has gotten tired of the problems with the TMW gimbal or base assembly, you could buy just the Virpil WarBRD base and mount your TMW grip onto it.  Honestly, the ergonomics of the TMW grip may be better, depending on what you're used to.  For example, I have the CH now, which is basically exactly the same as the TMW grip without a few of the extras (two-stage trigger, etc).  I REALLY like the thumb 4-way hat and using the fore-and-aft motion of that to control FOV zoom level; it's very natural feeling and doesn't cause me to need to move my hand at all on the stick to use it.  My new Virpil grip has a ton of hat switches, and the ones at the top of the grip (basically, all of them) are far more reachable than the uppermost ones on my CH (and presumably, the TMW) stick; especially with the adjustable hand rest feature.  However, there is no 4-way hat by the thumb at all; only a single push button, and even that seems not far enough forward and too far below (like you'd have to slide your thumb down to actuate it).  My new grip does have a two-way hat above the index finger, which seems tailor-made for FOV zoom (why else would you have a hat that only moves fore-and-aft?).  Although I think I will try this, right now it just doesn't seem as natural feeling as the thumb hat was/is.

 

The WarBRD base is awesome feeling for me.  It comes with 3 sets of cams.  The cams are supposed to be light, medium and heavy with regard to spring progression feel and centering force.  Each set has either one (light), two (medium), or 3 (heavy) bumps on the back side of the cams, so they can be identified.  They are highly accurately machined steel and each one rides on it's own ball bearing.  It also comes with 2 sets of springs: a gold set and a black set.  Physically, other than the color, these springs look EXACTLY the same; same wire diameter, same coil diameter, and same length.  The steel or alloy that they're made of must be different, because the gold set does feel a little less tension than the black set.  In any case, I immediately installed the lightest cams (one bump) and the lightest spring set (gold set).  In addition to that, since the stick itself is just plain longer than the CH or TMW, is has more leverage when moving it, and that also adds to the ease of movement.  Bottom line, I love the way it feels.....smooth and a lot of travel.

 

The electrical connector between the base and grip looks exactly like the old PS2 mouse/keyboard connector, if that's any help.  On the Virpil T-50 grip, that connector half can rotate so that the grip can be angled to your preference before you tighten down the knurled nut that holds it together.  You have to be very careful that the connectors are aligned when assembling the two halves.  The connector half in the base does not move or rotate.  Therefore, if your connector half in your TMW grip doesn't rotate, you won't be able to have that rotational adjustment feature (wouldn't matter much to me).

 

So: it's an option to consider for those this applies to.  If any of you has any further questions, just ask.

 

S!


"People who believe they are ignorant of nothing have neither looked for, nor stumbled upon, the boundary between what is known and unknown in the universe." -Neil deGrasse Tyson

#5 Pfeil

Pfeil

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 178 posts
  • LocationJasta 6

Posted 13 November 2018 - 10:46 AM

 they don't seem to have an adapter for the Virpil WarBRD joystick base

 

 

 

There is an adapter for Vipil WarBRD. It's the last in the list of available variants just under the T50 Throttle. 

 

Of course there is the possibility to install the joystick between your legs and throttle on the side.

It's only a question of space and preference. 

If you like to have joy and throtle infront of you then this will probably not work.


iGKzmH7.jpg1kQMDa.png


#6 Ludwig

Ludwig

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 112 posts
  • LocationSan Antonio, TX

Posted 16 November 2018 - 04:57 AM

I got the Virpil base/grip same as Ritter (*edit  I actually got the T-50 base and made my own "base plate out of 1/8th" plate steel) 

 

….and I like it a great deal. I ordered two sets of the tube extensions which made for a full length joystick (floor mount) which is identical to what I had in real airplanes and it took about 1/10th of a second to get right back to where I was. I paired this with the Crosswind rudder pedals and I am really quite pleased. I am using the same mixed media VR helmet that Snaggle has and while it is a extremely immersive, and a lot of fun, the restrictions to movement which are already well documented in other threads here make it a decided disadvantage in competition. It reminds me of using the "H" pattern shifter and clutch in the driving sims....  definitely what SHOULD be used... but if you are using paddle shifters in cars that never had them.... well... you have that same advantage as someone with Track IR has over the VR helmet. 

 

The full length stick allows EXTREMELY precise positioning (aiming) of the aircraft and while I would often stall the airplane in heavy maneuvers when I absolutely thought it should not have happened... it has NEVER happened with this stick. 

 

I will say flat out,  IMHO  if you have a desktop mounted stick, you are at a disadvantage.  Ritter and I had many discussions on this subject over the years and he and I agreed that the longer the stick, the greater the "throw" and therefore the fewer the degrees of travel by inch movement made the stick more controllable.  My accuracy increased by almost 50% and the range at which I could shoot and *expect* to hit almost doubled as well. 

 

Flying the Dr.I in F.C. is almost sinful, I told Snaggle that I actually expected them to re-tune the flight model because it made the Dr.I so easy to fly.

 

PS... the good news is that my old SAITEK X-52 throttle works just fine as a "stand alone" throttle without the stick.... I thought for sure that they had arranged the plugs the other way so that only the stick could stand alone, but thankfully someone at SAITEK was of the belief that you were more likely to use the throttle without the stick than the other way around. It doesn't have half the buttons and abilities of the T-50 throttle... but …. I am going on 2+ months trying to get one.

 

The hard part is as mentioned... I am 100% on board with the  FRUSTRATION  of trying to get components... I TRIED to get everything at once (Which saves you about $60 in shipping by the way)  but I could not get the throttle... and that was 2 months ago. I too... received the EMAIL from Virpil that some were available back in late October and I IMMEDIATELY attempted to order one but I could not get signed into the stupid website … turns out that I never had an account after all and my order (previous) was processed as a GUEST.... and even though I emailed them IMMEDIATELY and BEGGED them to save 1 unit for me as I was trying to get signed in and got the dreaded "Your account has been locked" which is a pretty good trick considering I didn't HAVE an account....  they did not hold one and I missed out. It took 10 hours for them to be all gone. I check their website EVERY day hoping to get one...   but nothing so far. I also have received email from their people on Saturday and Sunday so they are trying to make good...   they know that if there were some competition, they would be toast...  which means of course, they also know.... that there is no competition to speak of... which means that they can get away with doing things there own way. I am sure since I run a much smaller business using the same model, you don't want to spend money on stuff if you don't have to... and you do want to buy in bulk to get a better rate and sometimes it p-o's the customers.... but if they want the parts I make, I am the only supplier in the world...   they don't like it but they can make their own otherwise (and they like that less) 


  • Snaggle likes this
"Zwei stunde mit ohne zigarren..... furchbar" Adolf Galland to me about flying to the airshow.

"Chuck Yeager says... the first time ever I see a jet, I shoot it down.... I say.. the first time I see Chuck Yeager... I shoot him down" Gunter Rall to me at a picture signing.

#7 Ludwig

Ludwig

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 112 posts
  • LocationSan Antonio, TX

Posted 16 November 2018 - 05:11 AM

NOW IS YOUR CHANCE! I just ordered my Throttle...    after writing the above, I went and checked and they IN STOCK....  probably only for a few hours.


  • Snaggle likes this
"Zwei stunde mit ohne zigarren..... furchbar" Adolf Galland to me about flying to the airshow.

"Chuck Yeager says... the first time ever I see a jet, I shoot it down.... I say.. the first time I see Chuck Yeager... I shoot him down" Gunter Rall to me at a picture signing.

#8 Luftritter

Luftritter

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,231 posts
  • LocationMichigan, United States

Posted 16 November 2018 - 03:13 PM

Haha good for you! Now the waiting begins.

Sounds like you and I had the same problem: Some time in or after September, Virpil moved their entire organization, and seemingly changed their way of doing business (without letting anybody know, as far as I know).

When I ordered my first units (base and grip) they were still using the pre-order system and would fulfill orders in batches, one area of the world at a time. They were also based in Belarus, and used EMS Express to ship orders; and still operated using their original website. The currency was whatever Belarus uses ("BYN").

When I pre-ordered my base/grip, in early August, a few days later they announced they were going to fulfill a batch order for the non-EU that included orders through late July; so I missed out on that batch.

A week or so after that, they announced they were going to move their entire operation. Part of that was that they would fulfill all orders that still were pending at that time, and then stop taking orders for a short time. They didn't mention changing their website, or any consequences that would result from that.

About 3 weeks after that, I tried to log into my account on their site and check the status of my order. The website looked different, and the login page kept telling me I had the wrong user ID and password. So they had a lot of my money and I had no idea what happened to it. Needless to say I started to get very nervous.

I logged on as a guest and submitted a help ticket which included a .pdf or .jpg, whichever it would allow, of my paid order form.

About two days later, I received an email response telling me not to worry, because my order would be shipped within the next couple of days.

More than a week later, still no notice of shipment. I submitted another help request with the same info. The response said that unfortunately, when they moved to the new website, all accounts had been deleted, and that I would need to create a new one on the new site. They also said that my order was filled and that it would ship within a day or two.

I created a new account on the new site. Checking my orders record, Nothing was listed at all. Apparently all records from the old site were gone too.

A few days later, I received an email that my order had shipped, and an EMS tracking number. I immediately checked it, and it said that my package had been received at some strange city post office, and processed there. Some time after that, it went through some international shipping hub.

That was the last status I ever got from the tracking site. Thus began a long period of waiting and not knowing what was going on.

In the meantime, I decided that I wanted to get the T-50 thottle also. Knowing how long the whole process takes, I figured I'd better do it now. I logged into my new account on the new site, and tried to order one; but they were out of stock. That's when I learned you couldn't pre-order anymore, and that all I could do was apply for an email notification when they became available; so I did.

About a week later, I received an email saying that some throttles were in stock. I saw this first thing in the morning, and immediately went to their site to order one. The site was very slow and unresponsive; my first attempt failed. I logged in again, and again went through the order procedure. This time I waited a long time on each page, until everything on the page would update. Eventually the order did go through. After that, I checked my order records, and the order did appear there! Within a couple of days, the order shipped; this time from Lithuania, and the currency used was euros.  The shipping company now used was TNT Economy Express and tracking information was given for them. 

A couple of days later, I decided to order the "Cosmo-sim" cams for my stick, being afraid that the included cams would be too stiff. I was able to do that no problem, and the order did appear in my records.

Eventually my base/grip did show up. That's when I learned that it came with 3 sets of cams, but that the 2 stiffer sets were identical, even though they were identified as being different.

About a week after that, I received my throttle. Inside the box was a small ziplock bag containing the Cosmo-sim cams. They had charged me over $60.00 to ship that, and then just stuck it in the same box as a previous order. Not cool. Then I found out it was the exact same cam set as the lightest set that had come with my stick. Nearly $90.00 down the drain.

Needless to say not the best procurement experience. At least I got everything I ordered eventually.


"People who believe they are ignorant of nothing have neither looked for, nor stumbled upon, the boundary between what is known and unknown in the universe." -Neil deGrasse Tyson

#9 Pfeil

Pfeil

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 178 posts
  • LocationJasta 6

Posted 16 November 2018 - 05:15 PM

Well this is exactly the reason why I decided against Virpil and bought the warthog set.


iGKzmH7.jpg1kQMDa.png


#10 Ludwig

Ludwig

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 112 posts
  • LocationSan Antonio, TX

Posted 16 November 2018 - 05:33 PM

I missed most of that... I was thinking about and reading about which one to get and finally decided on the Virpil.... that was when they announced that they were moving their shop so they could access other shipping (DHL and primarily FedEx) which would result in better access, rates etc. Shipping costs have gone around the moon and headed for Pluto. When I started my model business I was paying $40 to ship  the largest parts (masts) and now that is costing $250 DOMESTIC...   after Sept. 11 there was a moratorium on anything over 1m going International US Mail and the big squeeze when DHL bought ABX  FedEx and UPS filed a lawsuit against them because you can't fly point-to-point in the USA because we can't fly that way in Europe... hence no more domestic delivery for DHL in the USA.  It is almost cheaper for me to ship to Mexico or Canada and have it re-shipped into the USA because DHL is that much less expensive.

 

Anyway...   yeah... $60 beans... because I could not get the throttle at the same time in the same box. I got the cams also, but I am really pleased with the original setup so not changing anything. I read somewhere... after the October 15 blog that they were getting so good about getting that done each month and had so much news... that they were considering going to a bi-weekly blog.... well...  hah hah…  it has not been updated since I read that. The adjustable grip rest is wonderful...  when doing the really long sorties in airplanes that don't have trim, and you keep a hand on the stick, I usually end up with my arm on my knee holding the shaft (old habits from slow airplanes) but otherwise the rest is really appreciated.

 

The communications and shipping/tracking for me were actually quite excellent... but this is after the move to the new facility and they are using FedEx now.... although there is no FedEx where they are located... it is being handled by local agents that feed into the system once within the USA but I got updates showing the package going through Amsterdam which is funny because one of my buddies that was going through training with me is going to be working in the Amsterdam center and he was home visiting when that happened, I was wishing that he could grab it and bring it back with him...  but it got here in reasonable time, I had no complaints.


"Zwei stunde mit ohne zigarren..... furchbar" Adolf Galland to me about flying to the airshow.

"Chuck Yeager says... the first time ever I see a jet, I shoot it down.... I say.. the first time I see Chuck Yeager... I shoot him down" Gunter Rall to me at a picture signing.

#11 Luftritter

Luftritter

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,231 posts
  • LocationMichigan, United States

Posted 16 November 2018 - 09:27 PM

@ Pfeil....for anybody dealing with Virpil right now, it should go a helluva lot smoother than it did for me.  I'm just glad I was able to get one at all.  At one time I was going to get the TMW setup, but I kept reading reviews talking about gimbal friction problems (I like a light-action stick) and Loopy even told me he had wiring malfunctions with his that required replacement parts.  Then I saw video that showed the inside of both, and how the TMW was metal on the outside, but plastic on the inside.  Plastic has worked great for me for a tremendous amount of time with my CH gear, but that gear didn't cost hundreds of dollars, so I would expect that.  The TMW stuff is about as expensive as these other units, but IMHO you get more for what you're paying, with the Virpil.

 

@ Larry:  Glad your experience was better.  The shipping is called TNT Express, but it does switch to FedEx or whatever once it gets into the USA, I guess.  I don't really care to be honest, as long as it gets here eventually.  I think even UPS sub-contacts USPS now for some of their deliveries (Sunday?).  It's confusing but at least it works well.

 

Did you say that you have TWO extension kits? (meaning, 3 lengths in each kit, total of 6?)  Or perhaps you meant two different a-la-carte lengths that you bought individually?  In any case, I can see that would be the pinnacle of realism. But I have also found that TOO much stability and accuracy, in these combat sims, while great for flying, makes it harder to be an effective shot, because it's harder to react as quickly and adjust your aim in time on quick passes.  In any case, I thought I would buy one of the 3-extension kits, so I could use any combination of them to get things just the way I like them.  Of course I'd need the lowered mount, and would probably go with a center-mounted Monstertech, as Pfeil suggested.  However I'm going to try what I have, and I think I may find that it's so similar to what I use now that I'll do well with it as-is.

 

To be honest, I didn't even know that the T-50 base even had changeable cams (or springs).  I figured you just turned the screws until the tension was to your liking.  I can see that you'd like the higher tension; that's absolutely needed when you lengthen the stick and have so much more leverage than you had before.  It's great to have a stick that you can tune for whatever length or preference you have.  People should realize that from my own personal experience, there are only TWO cam sets for the WarBRD base: the hard (long sticks) and the soft (desktop length sticks).  They may have meant to have 3 or 4, but from what I got, there are only two, regardless of what they call them or mark them as.  I will write a review on their site eventually.  Maybe they will send me the cams that were supposed to have been intermediate or ones that are even stronger....who knows.  But what I can tell you all now is that what they call the "Cosmo-sim" cams are the lightest, and the most like a CH; and they have ONE bump on them.  They were included with my stick, but may not be included in the future....who knows?  Springs are also part of the equation, and I am happy with what they sent (two sets), but one could go to the hardware store and get even stiffer or lighter ones, I assume; if not found there, online then.

 

One other thing to consider in the sensitivity realm, IMHO, is the amount your hand actually has to move in order to reach full deflection.  On my CH stick, if you measure the top of the stick, it moves about 4.0 to 4.5 inches from center to full deflection.  However, that doesn't take into account how far your hand is below the actual top of the stick; i.e. how for your HAND has to move.  Well, that's really hard to measure accurately.  Imagine if you added in an adjustable hand rest, how that complicates things.  Virpil gives it's measurement in degrees.  That's fine, but that doesn't take into account how tall the stick is.  In fact, it may actually be an advantage to have it move fewer degrees, if you have a longer stick; imagine if you couldn't move your stick to full deflection because of physical limitations of space. In any case, I found that my Virpil actually moves FEWER degrees of movement than my CH does (making you think: is it as accurate?) by quite a bit (20-something degrees for the Virpil, near 40 for the CH!) But, it is LONGER, so guess what? It moves about the same number of inches at the top in order to get to full deflection, as my CH does.  Does that make you think there's a sweet spot in there somewhere? Now add into the equation the variable that you can add all of those extensions to the Virpil, but accordingly, would need that much more physical space to be able to move it to.  I considered 3 extensions the limit for Virpil, but I never considered using even more (if that is actually what you'e done).  But as you say, your's is mounted on the floor, so I'll take the word of an experienced warbird pilot that that's what is most realistic.  However, I'll default to what allows me to kill the most enemies   ;)

 

Is this stuff not cool?    :D

 

Thanks for all of the feedback, guys!

 

S!


"People who believe they are ignorant of nothing have neither looked for, nor stumbled upon, the boundary between what is known and unknown in the universe." -Neil deGrasse Tyson

#12 Luftritter

Luftritter

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,231 posts
  • LocationMichigan, United States

Posted 18 November 2018 - 10:06 PM

Physical installation Step 1 complete.  Cut down, reworked base plate shown installed.  It's going to work nicely   :)

 

IMG-20181118-165257.jpg

 

 

 

IMG-20181118-165400.jpg


  • Snaggle likes this
"People who believe they are ignorant of nothing have neither looked for, nor stumbled upon, the boundary between what is known and unknown in the universe." -Neil deGrasse Tyson

#13 Ludwig

Ludwig

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 112 posts
  • LocationSan Antonio, TX

Posted 19 November 2018 - 06:54 AM

Hey Mike, (Ritter) 

 

 

 

Did you say that you have TWO extension kits? (meaning, 3 lengths in each kit, total of 6?)  Or perhaps you meant two different a-la-carte lengths that you bought individually?  In any case, I can see that would be the pinnacle of realism. But I have also found that TOO much stability and accuracy, in these combat sims, while great for flying, makes it harder to be an effective shot, because it's harder to react as quickly and adjust your aim in time on quick passes.  In any case, I thought I would buy one of the 3-extension kits, so I could use any combination of them to get things just the way I like them

 

Yes...   I got two (2) complete sets of the extension tubes...  they come in 3 piece sets (I know you know... but for those that don't) they come in 50mm 75mm and 100mm which is a little more expensive than getting the 100mm x2 + something else...  ($60 x 2 versus $25 x 3) since I didn't know exactly that I wanted, I figured I could mix and match to get the height I wanted. The only complaint there is that they don't make a single wire with any length... you get the length of wire that matches your pieces... so... 6 pieces... 6 wires which is a LOT of connectors to maintain as you assemble it. I wrote to them and asked if they would make available a single wire as that would make it SO much easier. Also... the standard fittings that they buy commercially and repackage to sell to us... has a flange on it that won't fit through the tube, so you have to be careful as you attach them and thread (one direction only) the connector to the base from the grip. 

 

As to speed or delay in moving the stick and aircraft response, we will have to get together and try it out once you are set up and see if there is a difference... I don't believe there is and I also believe that the precision on the longer stick makes the aiming you are describing easier still.  I don't even have a quality setup here in the apartment... I hope that maybe if I can get home next week for the holiday I can make something better than what I have now. Then I have to figure out what to do with the throttle...  right now the Saitek substitute has been sitting on a folding chair next to me... not exactly a professional installation.....  wak….

 

I have been shopping for a dedicated chair as I got with my driving setup... but nothing has leaped out at me. I am just grateful that I don't have to sit on the damn parachute... hard as a rock.


"Zwei stunde mit ohne zigarren..... furchbar" Adolf Galland to me about flying to the airshow.

"Chuck Yeager says... the first time ever I see a jet, I shoot it down.... I say.. the first time I see Chuck Yeager... I shoot him down" Gunter Rall to me at a picture signing.

#14 Vonrd

Vonrd

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,753 posts
  • LocationOakland, CA

Posted 19 November 2018 - 07:20 AM

I had severe problems in purchasing from Virpil. My bank card kept getting denied. I checked with my bank and they said there was no problem on their side. Of course, Virpil claimed no problem on their side. I offered Cashier's check and / or PayPal... no joy. I gave up. Now the Mongoose base seems to be discontinued and the current base has a disclaimer that extensions will void warranty. Screw it... I give up... also, VKB is non existent it seems.

 

I bought a "parts only" X-55 and plan on using the joystick to salvage the stick connectors to fab up a series of stick extensions. The X-55 has been fine and I'm hoping the extension (maybe 10" to start) will give me what I was looking for with ought the heartburn of trying to purchase from Belarus.


Posted Image

#15 Luftritter

Luftritter

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,231 posts
  • LocationMichigan, United States

Posted 19 November 2018 - 03:15 PM

I had severe problems in purchasing from Virpil. My bank card kept getting denied. I checked with my bank and they said there was no problem on their side. Of course, Virpil claimed no problem on their side. I offered Cashier's check and / or PayPal... no joy. I gave up. Now the Mongoose base seems to be discontinued and the current base has a disclaimer that extensions will void warranty. Screw it... I give up... also, VKB is non existent it seems.

 

I bought a "parts only" X-55 and plan on using the joystick to salvage the stick connectors to fab up a series of stick extensions. The X-55 has been fine and I'm hoping the extension (maybe 10" to start) will give me what I was looking for with ought the heartburn of trying to purchase from Belarus.

 

With regard to a denied credit card, I'm pretty sure that happens to everybody; it happened to me the first time.  That was all back when they had the "old" website.  It's your credit card company, all right; they are not going to allow a transaction that expensive in that area of the world without your specific approval.  Sounds like not very good card company, though; they should notify you immediately or real-time.  Back then, how it worked for me is that my first attempt was denied; then I had gotten an email from my company with a link to either approve or deny.  Once I did that, it said if your transaction was denied, to make it again and it would have no problem.  Second attempt had no problem.

 

The new website uses a different payment system than the old one, which seems more streamlined (remember, they use Euros now instead of "BYN", whatever that stands for).  Regardless, when I ordered from the new website, I got a text on my phone and all I had to do was text back "allow"; then the order was approved real-time without needing a second attempt.  You really should try again if you haven't already tried and failed at the new site.  Probably a stupid suggestion, but do you have another card from another company?  Capital One worked for me.

 

About the disclaimer: apparently the new WarBRD base has more degrees of travel than the older T-50 had.  Obviously the more extensions you use, the more travel it's going to have.  It's only common sense that you would make sure that whatever you set up, the grip wouldn't hit anything in any direction at maximum deflection.  Of course so many people lack common sense, and then want the company to pay for their ignorance.  Virpil's mounting hardware was basically designed for the T-50 base; but it is fully adjustable height-wise, and it would be up to the user to determine how far out from the edge of his environment it would need to be.  IMHO the 3-length extension kit would be perfect since you could have any combination of (only) 5 cm up to 22.5 cm.  That's only a total of just under 9 inches, folks.  Of course that doesn't include the length of the base+grip assy.; mine is 14 inches high by itself, and Larry's is taller than that by a bit.  In any case, the WarBRD base was obviously intended to be able to be used with extensions; it has the exact same physical and electrical connections, and comes with the stiffer cams and springs that you would want if doing that.  Bottom line is, the real difference is that WarBRD base doesn't need to be as tall as the discontinued T-50 base to have the same amount of travel at the grip.  In other words, just use less extensions.  What I can tell you for sure is that this thing is STRONG and made to withstand a lot of leverage; machined steel and ball bearings everywhere.  Plastic joysticks....not so much.  If they don't break outright, they sure will develop some serious play and wear pretty quickly, considering the extra mechanical force that would be applied.

 

@ Larry:  I was going to suggest using a PS2 extension cable in lieu of all of your ganged-together cables.  Even found one here:  PS2 Extension Cable  But then I noticed that my stick connector only has 5 pins, where as a PS2 has 6.  Still I'm wondering if the physical location of the 5 pins would line up....if you just pulled the extra pin out of the male side of the extension, the other 5 would be in the right place?  To test, you could take the male side of any one of your Virpil extension cables and carefully see if it fits into the female side of any PS2 cable or socket.  In any case, you would just coil up the extra cable inside the extensions (think telephone hand set cable).  Well it might be worth looking into if you have an old PS2 device laying around, or an old cable.  Don't try anything with the stick USB plugged into the computer, though.  Or, if you had an extra extension, I could extend the wiring for you to any length you want; but I bet you need all of the ones you have.  Oh well.


"People who believe they are ignorant of nothing have neither looked for, nor stumbled upon, the boundary between what is known and unknown in the universe." -Neil deGrasse Tyson

#16 Ludwig

Ludwig

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 112 posts
  • LocationSan Antonio, TX

Posted 20 November 2018 - 06:34 AM

YEah... I thought about the PS-2 thing also.... but I have it setup and working so.... never wake a sleeping baby right?  I am heading home tomorrow (YAY!) have to fly one trip in the morning but back and out by 14:00 and then home for the holiday. I will be able to work on some parts to modify my setup here...  I have been writing down dimensions and drawing plans all afternoon...   :)  I want to get with you after that and see if we can do some comparisons and see what we learn.  I am using the T-50 base and the total length of the "tube" is 16" the grip sitting on top of that brings the height to 30" from the floor to the top of the grip (highest point.) Travel from center is really quite equal and about 7" from Top dead center to the furthest point of travel. That is just exactly correct IMHO because it goes right out to my leg and barely touches it. The crosswind pedals are a bit narrow for most airplanes. should be 4-6 inches wider but I can understand that they were balancing realisim versus how much space do you have under the desk and allow some room for the doggie. I still remember your picture and quote.... "... and I wouldn't have it any other way" every time my terrier gets under the desk. 


  • Luftritter likes this
"Zwei stunde mit ohne zigarren..... furchbar" Adolf Galland to me about flying to the airshow.

"Chuck Yeager says... the first time ever I see a jet, I shoot it down.... I say.. the first time I see Chuck Yeager... I shoot him down" Gunter Rall to me at a picture signing.

#17 Luftritter

Luftritter

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,231 posts
  • LocationMichigan, United States

Posted 20 November 2018 - 09:29 PM

@ Larry, since I have 4.5 inches of travel from TDC to limit without any extensions at all (WarBRD moves more degrees than T-50 base), I measured that I would need to use the 100 mm extension and the 75 mm extension together in order to achieve 7 inches of travel from TDC to limit.  Obviously a lot shorter than yours.  In the end, somehow or another we'd both have to be approximately 7 inches or more from the edge of our mounting surface to the centered stick.  Difference is that mine would be quite a bit higher off of the ground and would need to use the lowered clamp mount options that are available instead of a floor mount like yours.

 

I think I'm going to be fine with the 4.5 inches of travel I have now, at least as a starting point.  I have the materials I need to mod my keyboard tray and could start any time, but I want to wait until after this coming Wednesday in case the guys want to fly Moxy's campaign that evening.  I wasn't going to mess with things until after FiF Fall ends, but that's more than a month away so I might just go for it and hope I understand the software enough to get things working the way I want them to. 


"People who believe they are ignorant of nothing have neither looked for, nor stumbled upon, the boundary between what is known and unknown in the universe." -Neil deGrasse Tyson

#18 Vonrd

Vonrd

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,753 posts
  • LocationOakland, CA

Posted 20 November 2018 - 10:08 PM

@ Larry, I have 4.5 inches. Obviously a lot shorter than yours.  In the end, somehow or another we'd both have to be approximately 7 inches or more like yours.

 

I think I'm going to be fine with the 4.5 inches I have now. 

 

Sorry... couldn't resist   :rolleyes:


Posted Image

#19 Luftritter

Luftritter

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,231 posts
  • LocationMichigan, United States

Posted 20 November 2018 - 10:31 PM

HEY....that's been edited   :lol:

 

Why do you think I was so careful in my original wording??!!

 

I can't say much, I think your mind and mine think far too similarly

 

Keep up the good work   :D


"People who believe they are ignorant of nothing have neither looked for, nor stumbled upon, the boundary between what is known and unknown in the universe." -Neil deGrasse Tyson

#20 Ludwig

Ludwig

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 112 posts
  • LocationSan Antonio, TX

Posted 21 November 2018 - 05:18 PM

yeah, can't even say this one out loud.... she would still be laughing come Christmas


"Zwei stunde mit ohne zigarren..... furchbar" Adolf Galland to me about flying to the airshow.

"Chuck Yeager says... the first time ever I see a jet, I shoot it down.... I say.. the first time I see Chuck Yeager... I shoot him down" Gunter Rall to me at a picture signing.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users