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Issue with GPU or CPU or anything in between…..


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#1 Etzel

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Posted 03 February 2019 - 01:01 PM

Hey Guys,

following a long posting to describe a very strange issue I have with my PC system in the FiF events since I bought a new GPU last September (MSI GTX 1060 6 GB):

After some time of flying the monitor suddenly goes into stand-by while the system (or at least parts of it) is still running. I can still hear the action in the game and even talk to the other players on teamspeak. But the Keyboard seems not to work, at least ALT+F4 or CTRL+ALT+DEL don’t have any effect

Turning the monitor off and on again also has no effect, it stays in standby…. So in that situation the only thing I can do is a hard shut down of the system via on-off-switch.

Yesterday the situation was a little bid more complicated, as the reboot didn’t work properly: The first few tries the system simply didn’t boot at all and then when it finally started I got a BIOS message telling: „Overclocking failed! Please enter Setup to re-configure your system.“ Well I had no Idea what the f*** I should change in the BIOS settings so I entered them but left it without any changes… but in the next boot the message came again so decided to set all CPU related settings to „automatic“, hoping the system knows better what to do then me….  It seems this strategy was not too bad, at least the system booted and so far it seems to work stable. ;) 

For yesterdays FiF mission I activated the MSI Afterburner logging with all possible details, so I was curious if I could read anything out of this logs and one thing is pretty clear now:

The Graphic Card simply stopped working! All graphs in the log that are GPU related (GPU temp, GPU Usage, GPU Fan, etc.) dropping down to Zero exactly in the same moment, while all CPU related graphs continue normaly, the CPU usage goes significantly upwards after the GPU stopped (but only to a peak of ~75%).

But: I see no hint at all, why the f*** that happend !!??

GPU Temperature never climbed higher then 68 degrees, GPU usage hardly ever reaches 60%.

The CPU is much older then the GPU, it is an i5-3570 3,4 GHz, so it‘s usage is higher then the one of GPU but also not critical, esp. in the last minute before the GPU stopped it reached never higher then 75%, also temperature of any of the Cores never climbs higher then ~60 degrees…

So I find in the logs nothing that explains why the Graphic Card simply decides to stop working  :blink: 

And to complete the mystery: This strange behaviour is strictly limited to the Flandern in Flames events. It started in the last tournament on the tarnopol map where I first thought the combination of heavy clouds in between the mountains caused the problem. But I had it also last week in the testrun and yesterday.

2 weeks ago I flew at cubans server 1h 24 minutes on the channel map (also with heavy clouds I remember) and without any issues.

I fly the Il2 BOX series online and offline where both GPU and CPU loads are much higher, in fact the CPU usage in IL2 is pretty much on the limit, and I play Kingdom Come Deliverance and in none of these Games I have this specific issue at all (of course, sometimes there is a game freeze or a game crash, ok, that happened also in RoF sometimes, but never such an issue with the GPU).

The chance that it happens in FiF I would estimate with a probability of 70% or even higher….

 

So, many words later I finally bring it to the point: Any one has any idea what I could do?

What is hidden especially in Butzzells maps that causes my GPU to refuse working…. ??  :unsure: 

 



#2 Luftritter

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Posted 03 February 2019 - 02:40 PM

Very good description, Etzel; thanks!

 

I would not attribute it to FiF specifically; my guess is that it's some kind of video setting inside the RoF game, or one that is bound or associated to RoF specifically by some other program, like nVidia Control Panel, or maybe your MSI Afterburner utility.  It seems apparent that your monitor is losing it's video input signal completely; that's why you get the standby mode from your monitor.  In other words, it seems like your GPU is crashing.

 

The first thing to try is to see if your GPU crashes when you're playing RoF on some other server, or in single player.  Try to recreate the same conditions that you have when flying in FiF.  Fly for at least as long (including any practice time that you may have played before an FiF session), and fly in areas of heavy video stress (near the ground, over cities, trees, etc.).

 

If it never happens while flying in other areas of RoF, and only happens while flying FiF, there could be a remnant of a mod still in your game somewhere.  However, I doubt that, because normally that would cause a DTD (Drop To Desktop or CTD, Crash To Desktop), and not a complete loss of video signal altogether.  However, anything is possible.

 

What is unclear to me is what exactly are you doing with the Afterburner utility?  Is it overclocking the video card by either manual settings, or even some automatic increases that would step up speeds in response to greater demands?

 

Honestly, if it were me, I would disable all overclocking to start with, both in the system BIOS and also I would disable or even uninstall the MSI Afterburner.  In the BIOS, it is best to start with all settings at Default; and there is always a single setting that does this.  There is almost always a switch or button on the motherboard that can also do this if you can't boot to the BIOS.  Even if you can't do that, you can even short across the MB battery for a second or two, or remove it from the board for a while and then put it back in.  But obviously do the easiest thing first and only worry about the others if that turns out to be impossible.  In any case, you may have already done this by setting it to "automatic", but it would be best to double check to see that there isn't another setting that would set all parameters to the BIOS defaults.  It's possible that "automatic" is part of that....or it could mean that it "automatically" does some kind of overclocking.  For troubleshooting purposes, you do NOT want it to do that.  Setting BIOS to all default settings should disable any kind of overclocking.

 

Then I would get rid of that Afterburner program; either disable it and make sure it's not starting itself on reboot, or uninstall it altogether.  You can always reinstall it later if you want....you might even get a more recent version from MSI than you have now.

 

Then run RoF and FiF in a completely standard hardware configuration and see if it happens anymore.

 

If you don't want to go that route, there is a utility called "ModSearch" you can run on RoF that will find old mods, or remnants of them, inside your installation of RoF.  For some reason it will show a lot of paint files as mods, but you can ignore that part of the results.  If it shows ANYTHING else besides those paint files, you get rid of it.

 

The only way to accomplish what you would by running "ModSearch" would be to run "Recovery" through the RoF Game Launcher.  I would never do that until I first saved a LOT of information from my game installation, like all of my paint folders, snapviews, controls map files, etc.  This is because you lose all of that doing a recovery, so it would be like starting from scratch if you didn't.

 

I attached the ModSearch program plus supporting files in a zip file, if you want to try it.  All you have to do is unzip the files, then place all 3 of them in your "Rise of Flight" folder.  Then just run the executable.  It will show you something like this:

 

Mod-Search.jpg

 

Ignore anything that it shows inside of the "skins" folder (any *.dds files).  But do look carefully for anything else it might be showing, other than paint files.  To get rid of any specific file that it finds, you just check the box next to it, and then "Delete Selected".

 

EDIT:  All required files now included in the attached archive.

 

S!

Attached Files


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#3 Etzel

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Posted 03 February 2019 - 08:50 PM

Hi Luft, 

 

thanks for your comprehensive feedback! 

 

Regarding try to create this GPU crash on other Servers or in Single Player: This I did, e.g. directly after it happened the 1st time at the tarnopol map I flew several single player missions on tarnopol map with similar weather settings and plenty AIs => no problem occured. And on other Servers: Well, beside cubans vintage missions there are no RoF Servers populated enough anymore to test this (at least not at times where I am able to fly) and on cuban server there is no problem at all.

 

Regarding the BIOS: I never changed anything in the BIOS settings until yesterday evening when I was forced to by the system. So if the root cause of the problem was connected to some BIOS settings yesterdays changes maybe fixed it....

 

Many thanks for the MOD search program, unfortunatly it doesn't work for me because trying to use it (after I placed it in the RoF-Folder) I get an .NET-Framework-Error telling me that File or Assembly "ROFTools.Common, Version=1.0.0.0) was not found… and after confirming this message I get this screen without any Content :-( 

 

But => coming to the most important hint you gave me via asking what I am doing with the Afterburner Utility... and the answer is: In reality don't know :huh:  

I installed it to see what would be theoretically possible, but finally I did not overclock anything. The only real use this tool has for me is that I can turn on the logging to see the how GPU and CPU are performing in the different gaming situations, which is sometimes really interesting…

But all the other possibilities for me are complete useless.

 

So it might be anyhow a good idea to uninstall that app; who knows: Maybe this program creates any conflict for the GPU in certain situations where without it there would be no problem…. So I will uninstall and if no other problems occur I might give it another try in one of the next FiF sessions!!

 

Salute & Thanks once again Luft!


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#4 Luftritter

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Posted 03 February 2019 - 10:36 PM

EDIT: see the following post for the necessary file needed to make the ModSearch program work.

 

After trying that....

 

Since it seems that you are not extremely familiar with BIOS or Afterburner, you may still try to enter the BIOS on your next boot-up and set all settings to default.

 

Most often, you do this by, when starting or rebooting your computer, when you see the BIOS "splash" screen (or in some cases, BIOS initial testing screens), you hit the "delete" key repeatedly.  Once you see that it has entered the BIOS utility, look for the instructions on the screen somewhere that indicate how to move and select menu items.  Via this, try to reset BIOS settings to default through the setting that is made for that.  In almost every case, this will not cause any additional problems with your computer; that is why those settings are default.  If you have ANY doubts as to how to do this, you can consult one of us (many in JG1) who are familiar with such procedures.

 

I or we don't know how you got your computer.  If it was purchased, the supplier may have enabled certain settings that are now causing you trouble....i.e. overclocking settings.  If you at some point did that yourself, it might now be wise to revert to the default setting in order to troubleshoot.

 

I think it's important to say now that, it's your computer, and you shouldn't do anything that makes you uncomfortable.  Put your trust in what you trust.  However, I would say that it is generally safe to eliminate programs, if you can easily reinstall them later.

 

One thing I'd like to add, that might be a little too late in this case.  Your GPU (video card) is an nVidia xx60 series.  This is cheap, but a relatively low grade of performance capability.  This in turn may make overclocking seem like not only a good alternative, but almost a required one.

 

The advice I give now can't help you with your current hardware.  But in the future, I would suggest that the performance gain of an xx70 or xx80 series nVidia GPU might be worth the extra money spent to get one, in order to avoid overclocking.  After all, only you know what games you play, and in each, what settings that are necessary to fulfill your needs.  In general, it is best not to overclock.  It often goes beyond the capabilities of the hardware; problems often come down to settings that are imposed on hardware by software (or firmware: BIOS).  The result can be situations that are similar to your own, when hardware can't RELIABLY do what the software (or firmware) is telling it to do.  In that case, it is best to eliminate all "overclocking" and just let the hardware do what it's advertised as being capable of doing.  After reverting to those settings, if your hardware still won't at at least give you some reliable level of performance in the games you play, there is most probably something wrong with the hardware itself.  Unfortunately this is a real possibility, considering that overclocking can cause physical damage to hardware.

 

In the end, I would not suggest waiting until the next FiF session in order to troubleshoot.  You have the files that you need to test on your computer, right now.  All that you need to do to test is to start up RoF, and then go to Multiplayer.  Instead of entering an online server, push the button for "Create New Server".  Then on the right side of the screen, scroll through the list of missions until you see one for FiF 2019 Winter.  Select that and then hit the ">" button displayed there to put it in the list of missions to run.  Then tell it to run....

 

At that point, it should be just like entering any other Multiplayer server, but nobody but you will most likely be able to see or enter it.  Then you can do whatever missions you like without interference, and test to make sure your hardware or software/firmware settings work reliably.

 

My apologies, if I am assuming some level of unfamiliarity that doesn't apply to you.  I don't mean to offend at all.  I hope by over-explaining, it might avoid any possible confusion. 

 

S!


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#5 Luftritter

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Posted 03 February 2019 - 11:51 PM

"....unfortunatly it doesn't work for me because trying to use it (after I placed it in the RoF-Folder) I get an .NET-Framework-Error telling me that File or Assembly "ROFTools.Common, Version=1.0.0.0) was not found…."

 

Oops, sorry....my bad.

 

It is also necessary to place this additional file in the same location as the ModSearch executable file  (see attached file).

 

Unzip and place in the same "Rise of Flight" folder location.   After that, the ModSearch program should work, as explained earlier!

 

Sorry for the confusion....!

Attached Files


"People who believe they are ignorant of nothing have neither looked for, nor stumbled upon, the boundary between what is known and unknown in the universe." -Neil deGrasse Tyson

#6 Etzel

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Posted 04 February 2019 - 12:04 AM

Hi, 

 

thanks for the tips… your assumptions on my capabilities are not soo wrong ;-) …. but nevertheless, e.g. I know the Rise of Flight Folder and the file "ModSearch" is located directly there, e.g. next to the JSGME-Files. Nevertheless it's not working, Maybe the reason can be that my Installation is not on the Default-Directory but under "D:\Rise of Flight"? 

 

...well, I will try it with the .NET repair tool.

 

Regarding the GPU: The 1060 with 6GB was already an upgrade to my system which is more than 5 years old and was originally delivered (as complete system, so BIOS Settings were done by manufacturer) with a 660 Ti. More money I did not want to invest in this old system, so the 1060 seemed to me as quite good compromise. And so far the experience justify this decision: I am playing the complete BOx-Series on pretty high settings with allmost no issues.

I see my system coming to its limits in single player campaign missions, when many AI planes are active. But here clearly the CPU is the limiting factor and not the GPU, so any better (and more expensive) graphic card would be a waste in my current system, before I buy one I will rather buy a complete new PC. 

So overall the 1060 with 6 GB is the GPU that makes most sense for me and deliveres (beside that one issue) a pretty good performance. 

 

Anyhow I never had the Intention to overclock anything on my PC and the Afterburner Software is meanwhile already uninstalled. ;-)

 

What is without any doubt a good idea is to use the Mission files and set up a multiplayer server for my own to test if the issue happens also without other players… will try to do this before the next session where I can participate...

 

Thx :-) 



#7 Luftritter

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Posted 04 February 2019 - 12:25 AM

Hi, 

 

thanks for the tips… your assumptions on my capabilities are not soo wrong ;-) …. but nevertheless, e.g. I know the Rise of Flight Folder and the file "ModSearch" is located directly there, e.g. next to the JSGME-Files. Nevertheless it's not working, Maybe the reason can be that my Installation is not on the Default-Directory but under "D:\Rise of Flight"? 

 

...well, I will try it with the .NET repair tool.

 

Regarding the GPU: The 1060 with 6GB was already an upgrade to my system which is more than 5 years old and was originally delivered (as complete system, so BIOS Settings were done by manufacturer) with a 660 Ti. More money I did not want to invest in this old system, so the 1060 seemed to me as quite good compromise. And so far the experience justify this decision: I am playing the complete BOx-Series on pretty high settings with allmost no issues.

I see my system coming to its limits in single player campaign missions, when many AI planes are active. But here clearly the CPU is the limiting factor and not the GPU, so any better (and more expensive) graphic card would be a waste in my current system, before I buy one I will rather buy a complete new PC. 

So overall the 1060 with 6 GB is the GPU that makes most sense for me and deliveres (beside that one issue) a pretty good performance. 

 

Anyhow I never had the Intention to overclock anything on my PC and the Afterburner Software is meanwhile already uninstalled. ;-)

 

What is without any doubt a good idea is to use the Mission files and set up a multiplayer server for my own to test if the issue happens also without other players… will try to do this before the next session where I can participate...

 

Thx :-) 

 

Apologies again, I was hoping that you saw my edit in which I realized my mistake before you wasted time checking your .NET framework.  I'm sure there is nothing wrong with it....

 

Just install the additional file attached in the above post, and the ModSearch program should work.

 

By way of explanation, that program was originally gotten by me through the RoF forums a long time ago, and probably has no current means of getting it.  I just know that the necessary files are installed on my machine;  I just looked at the files inside my Rise of Flight folder and went by what is there now.  I missed the necessary .dll file, but I am quite sure there are only 2 files needed, and that should be all that is required.

 

EDIT: that is incorrect, there are 3 files needed, which are now all included in the archive attached to the original post.

 

Sorry!

 

:wacko:


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#8 Luftritter

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Posted 04 February 2019 - 12:35 AM

One other question would be:  since I see that you upgraded from an original 660 to a 1060 video card, did you also at that time upgrade the driver?  Big difference in card generations.....


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#9 Etzel

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Posted 04 February 2019 - 02:37 PM

Thanks for 2nd file, the behavoiur changed now that way, that after I cklick the ModSearch no error occurs anymore but also nothing else happens…. I see in the Task Manager, that this Task Shows up for 2 seconds and then dissapear again….

 

Regarding the GPU Driver: Yes, that you have to install a new driver for the new card is clear and I surly did this after the installation. Nevertheless it was a good idea to check this, as meanwhile a newer Version was available and updated it. Anyhow, I don't think that this is a driver-problem, but who knows!?



#10 Luftritter

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Posted 04 February 2019 - 03:25 PM

Maybe try browsing to the ModSearch.exe file location, left-click once on the file to select it, then right-click on that file, choose "properties", and then click on the "compatibility" tab at the top.  Then click on the box of the bottom setting in that window (check mark it), called "Run this program as administrator".  Then hit "OK".

 

Then try running the program again.

 

Honestly it's doubtful that a mod problem could cause your problem, in my opinion; normally that kind of thing happens when you're trying to run in "Mods On" mode and it's not working right.  If you're in normal mode (no Mods On selected), the game really should ignore any mods files, regardless....so that really shouldn't cause the problem you're having.  That said, I figured it might be worth a try.

 

Have you run into the problem again after your last change to the BIOS?  Maybe you're already fixed.  Concentrate on trying to duplicate the problem by running the FiF mission for as long as you have time to, or as many times as you can try.  At least you can get in some practice time, if nothing else.  I hope that the problem won't reappear now.  If it does, maybe Butzzell can think of something more to try that might help.


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#11 Luftritter

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Posted 04 February 2019 - 03:48 PM

Nope, I think I was wrong.  I guess my memory of what exactly was needed along with that ModSearch program is flawed.  What I did was list all of the files and folders in my "Rise of Flight" folder in order of date; that way all files with the same date are listed together.  There is ANOTHER driver (.dll file) that I think is needed.  It is attached below; it needs to go in the same location as the 2 files you already have.  I am sorry about this.  What I should have had initially was one zip file that had all 3 needed files inside of it, but I just didn't remember everything that required to have with the program.

 

Just to clarify, none of these files will hurt your computer or mess up your game.  They'll just stay in the Rise of Flight folder not doing anything, until you decide to run the program.

 

It also won't hurt anything to set a program to run as administrator (as long as it's not a virus).

 

Sorry again!

Attached Files


"People who believe they are ignorant of nothing have neither looked for, nor stumbled upon, the boundary between what is known and unknown in the universe." -Neil deGrasse Tyson

#12 Etzel

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Posted 04 February 2019 - 09:16 PM

Ahhhh... now it finally worked. In the first run the tool really found something, but then I saw that I had the BA7 Modpack still installed, so I first removed this via JSGME and did the search again and then only the plane skins were found anymore. But as you wrote before I also don't think that the mods were the reason for my problem. 

 

So far I did not even start RoF since last Saturday, I hope I'll find the time to Setup my own multiplayer-mission based on last FiFs map and fly 1 or 1,5 hours somewhen before end of the week! That's the most realstic setting that's creatable… beside that there's only the next possible FiF-Session as a live-test available (so far I don't know our plans for upcomming Saturday, so don't know if I am available)

 

And as you also already said: Best case would be, that either the BIOS-Change or the Afterburner-Uninstall already fixed the Problem, but finally known will this be only after my next FiF session ;-)

 

Anyhow: Thanks very much for your help so far, Luft!!

 

Will Keep you uptodate when I made some test flights...



#13 Luftritter

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Posted 04 February 2019 - 09:37 PM

Glad it finally worked!  I'm going to edit the attached file in my original post so that anybody who wants to try it in the future will have all the proper files, the first time, in that one zip file.

 

Good luck, I hope it's solved and you'll be back in action soon!

 

S!


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#14 Etzel

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Posted 06 February 2019 - 02:50 PM

Baaaad News..... the problem is reproducable: 

 

I did yesterday the set-up of an own server and used last saturdays map for it:

I took off in an fe2b at Pluckley, flew directly to Bridge 2 (it was the active one) and destroyed it, flew back to Canterbury to start the search for the train there.... and directly when I flew low level over Canterbury suddenly ....*klick*.... and the screen went off.....

:(

 

It happened even faster as when I flew online... :blink:  ...Well, that could point out something else: On Saturday I reduced my graphic settings a little bid, for this test I put everything to the absolut maximum... so it could be, that the graphic settings make a difference for this issue....

 

On the one hand thats for me absolutely not understandable as my new GPU is far away from any limit in RoF even with the highest settings, on the other hand I have more and more the feeling, that the issue is not directly caused by the GPU but from any other component around and the switch-off of the GPU is only the symptom....

 

However, I have no idea to find it out, but based on the fact that I can reproduce the problem at least there is one small hope: I can play around with the graphic settings and maybe find a level, where this issue is not happening anymore, but which is still good enough for navigation and plane spotting..... 

 

...but this approach will probably take some time; so for the time being that means I am out from FiF  :unsure: :unsure:

 

Thats a pitty for me, as FiF is the best chance to meet more of you; nevertheless I hope there is the chance to fly together either on Cubans Server or on our Flying Circus server or on any IL2-Server...

 

 

Edit: And thanks again Luft for all your support, esp. for the tipp to set up my own server with the FiF-map for testing purposes; this was a great idea and shouold have done this already during last tournament where this issue occured for the first time...



#15 Britchot

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Posted 06 February 2019 - 05:06 PM

Sorry to hear about the consistency, Etzel.  I have nothing to contribute but hoped for the best. 


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#16 Shadepiece

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Posted 06 February 2019 - 05:30 PM

Etzel, I think some people have conflicts with Nvidia GeForce Experience if you have that installed. I would also maybe try uninstalling all your video drivers and reinstall them off of a USB maybe.
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#17 Luftritter

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Posted 06 February 2019 - 05:55 PM

Could you post your RoF video settings, Etzel?

 

Also, could you browse to your ....Rise of Flight > data > Multiplayer > Dogfight  folder, and delete everything that's inside the "Dogfight" folder?

 

This won't hurt anything because the missions are downloaded when you enter any Multiplayer server.

 

It will prevent you from running the FiF mission yourself, like I asked you to try earlier.  You'll just need to enter the JG1 FiF Practice server again, and it will get those files for you again.  After that, you'll be able to run the mission yourself again.

 

Then try again to see if it will crash.

 

Good luck!


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#18 Etzel

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Posted 06 February 2019 - 08:39 PM

No Prob, following the settings as I set them for this test flight:

Attached File  Graphicsetttings.jpg   113.87KB   0 downloads

 

Regarding deletion of the complete dogfight-folder: Well, maybe good idea to do this also before I do the next testing (did this regularly in former times when I played a lot online on the different servers), but honestly I don't think this will make any difference...



#19 Etzel

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Posted 06 February 2019 - 08:46 PM

Etzel, I think some people have conflicts with Nvidia GeForce Experience if you have that installed. I would also maybe try uninstalling all your video drivers and reinstall them off of a USB maybe.

 

Nvidia GeForce Experience I don't have installed (don't even know what this ist?).

 

And installing the GPU Drivers from a USB stick should bring anything??  :huh: 



#20 Luftritter

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Posted 07 February 2019 - 03:06 PM

No Prob, following the settings as I set them for this test flight:

attachicon.gifGraphicsetttings.jpg

 

Regarding deletion of the complete dogfight-folder: Well, maybe good idea to do this also before I do the next testing (did this regularly in former times when I played a lot online on the different servers), but honestly I don't think this will make any difference...

 

 

Any reason why you don't run full screen mode?

 

If you haven't already, try disabling "Post Effects".  This is only for testing purposes.  Suspect here is "Super Sampling" especially; it can be a real killer to some systems.  If disabling Post Effects cures the problem, you could later try to enable them again, but disable the Super Sampling part, and see if it still works.

 

All I can say is that this is how I run the game.  My system is more powerful than yours, both CPU, GPU, and probably memory too.  Most people do run Post Effects, but I'm not sure if they use the Super Sampling part of that all of the time.  They maybe have more powerful systems than yours, too.  In any case, it might be worth a try to disable the Post Effects just for testing purposes....it's easy to turn back on later if it doesn't make any difference.

 

settings.jpg


"People who believe they are ignorant of nothing have neither looked for, nor stumbled upon, the boundary between what is known and unknown in the universe." -Neil deGrasse Tyson




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