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JG I "Richthofen" - FIF2019 "Winter Campaign" Session B4 (23 March 2019)

JG1 Flanders In Flames Awards

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#1 Klaiber

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Posted 02 April 2019 - 03:42 AM

S! All,

The following JG I pilots are being recognized for their actions during Session B4 of Flanders In Flames 2019 "Winter Campaign" (flown on 23 March 2019).

Congratulations!

. . .

Saxon Knight's Cross of the Military Order of St. Henry
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  • Fähnr. Leopold (Lee) Greifvogel, Jasta 10 (session #B4, 23 March 2019), prisoner-of-war, for conspicuous personal bravery on the battlefield or, more frequently in the case of officers of higher rank, for merit in positions of great responsibility [esprit de corps & a great streak - 2 air victories, 4 ground victories, and 4 wounded-in-actions, over 9 sorties.

 

German Army Report
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  • OffzSt. Lothar (GenMarkof) von Zudet, Jasta 11 (session #B4, 23 March 2019), prisoner-of-war, for gallantry in battle, but also extraordinary fidelity and essential service. [good streak - 2 air victories, 2 ground victories, and 2 wounded-in-actions, over 6 sorties.]
  • Fähnr. Erich (Razwald) Vogel, Jasta 11 (session #B4, 23 March 2019), prisoner-of-war, for gallantry in battle, but also extraordinary fidelity and essential service. [good streak - 3 air victories, 1 ground victory, and 3 wounded-in-actions, over 3 sorties.]
  • Oblt. Richard (Vonrd) Ausweichen, Jasta 10 (session #B4, 23 March 2019), for gallantry in battle, but also extraordinary fidelity and essential service. [esprit de corps]
  • Lt. Peter Pragr, Jasta 4 (session #B4, 23 March 2019), prisoner-of-war, for gallantry in battle, but also extraordinary fidelity and essential service. [great streak - 5 air victories, 5 ground victories, and 1 wounded-in-action, over 3 sorties.]

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Hals - und Beinbruch!


#2 Vonrd

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Posted 02 April 2019 - 03:45 AM

Thanks and big congrats to Lee! And everyone else!


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#3 GenMarkof007

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Posted 02 April 2019 - 05:10 AM

S! Congrats to all!

Special thanks you to our FIF campaign creator!

Special thanks to our 2 commanders ( Luft & Dudley )!

And finally, very big thank you to Klaiber for all the hard work behind a desk!

 

Cheers,

Gen ;)


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#4 Etzel

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Posted 02 April 2019 - 07:13 AM

Congratulations guys....

 

And also many thanks to all the people making such events possible and the ones who take over organizational tasks and providing us with so much fun!


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#5 Snaggle

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Posted 02 April 2019 - 01:14 PM

S! Congrats to all!

Special thanks you to our FIF campaign creator!

Special thanks to our 2 commanders ( Luft & Dudley )!

And finally, very big thank you to Klaiber for all the hard work behind a desk!

 

Cheers,

Gen ;)

+1

 

Well done to all!!


S!

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#6 Kliegmann

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Posted 02 April 2019 - 02:05 PM

Congrats guys, well done


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#7 Luftritter

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Posted 02 April 2019 - 04:26 PM

Great job, everybody! Congrats, and S!


"People who believe they are ignorant of nothing have neither looked for, nor stumbled upon, the boundary between what is known and unknown in the universe." -Neil deGrasse Tyson

#8 US103_Talbot

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Posted 02 April 2019 - 07:45 PM

Excellent job guys!

Beautiful award Lee!

#9 =VS=emely

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Posted 02 April 2019 - 09:55 PM

First of all, congratulations to all those who won awards! I like the tradition of your squadron. Modestly I want to add that the statistics on downed enemy aircraft or targets destroyed - does not always accurately reflect the weight of the pilot’s contribution to the common cause. And some who may not be able to boast a large number of victories, but without his participation - the victories of his comrades would not be possible. So they also congratulations! :-)
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#10 Butzzell

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Posted 03 April 2019 - 01:05 AM

S! ALL

 

Big CONGRATZ.   Well done and well deserved. Great job by everyone.


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#11 Etzel

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Posted 03 April 2019 - 11:20 AM

First of all, congratulations to all those who won awards! I like the tradition of your squadron. Modestly I want to add that the statistics on downed enemy aircraft or targets destroyed - does not always accurately reflect the weight of the pilot’s contribution to the common cause. And some who may not be able to boast a large number of victories, but without his participation - the victories of his comrades would not be possible. So they also congratulations! :-)

 

Emely is touching something I am also wondering about: Maybe it would be good Idea to increase the points for some 2-seater missiosn slightly to reflect risk and strategic contribution a little better?

I think at the moment the system is not really reflecting the importance and esp. the risk of some 2-seater missions, e.g.: If someone does a long recon flight deep in enemy territory, have to stay some time over the target to take the pics, thus have a significant higher risk of beeing intercepted, needs to land safely on an active field gets (if successfull) 1 point, while a pilot who heads directly to a scondary target, destroys 3 trucks or horse units there in 2 minutes and ditches his plane 1 km inside friendly territory gets 3 points...

 

To make it clear: It will never be possible to highlight everyones contribution 100% fair and accurate, beside that the rewards are for sure not the main reson for flying events like FiF, nevertheless I think a slight recalibration of the points granted for successfull recon, spy, capture and spotter missions could help to outline the job done by those pilots better (...and would also not be too complicated I hope...).

 

...just my 2 cents...

;)


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#12 Lee

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Posted 03 April 2019 - 11:47 AM

Thanks guys. Congratulations to all!

S!
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#13 Klaiber

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Posted 03 April 2019 - 03:01 PM

Emely is touching something I am also wondering about: Maybe it would be good Idea to increase the points for some 2-seater missiosn slightly to reflect risk and strategic contribution a little better?

I think at the moment the system is not really reflecting the importance and esp. the risk of some 2-seater missions, e.g.: If someone does a long recon flight deep in enemy territory, have to stay some time over the target to take the pics, thus have a significant higher risk of beeing intercepted, needs to land safely on an active field gets (if successfull) 1 point, while a pilot who heads directly to a scondary target, destroys 3 trucks or horse units there in 2 minutes and ditches his plane 1 km inside friendly territory gets 3 points...

 

To make it clear: It will never be possible to highlight everyones contribution 100% fair and accurate, beside that the rewards are for sure not the main reson for flying events like FiF, nevertheless I think a slight recalibration of the points granted for successfull recon, spy, capture and spotter missions could help to outline the job done by those pilots better (...and would also not be too complicated I hope...).

 

...just my 2 cents...

;)

 

Hi Etzel,

 

There are a number of ways that the current system attempts to adequately reflect the sacrifice of "long-haul two-seater pilots". 

 

Firstly, there is a one-to-one parity between air-to-ground (A2G) victories and air-to-air (A2A) victories.  This means that new pilots (regardless of what they're doing) will advance through the victory decorations quickly, until about the Iron Cross 1st Class (worth 5 A2A or 5 A2G).  After that, natural attrition will give both A2G and A2A streaks a nice bell curve, where the highest victory decorations will be just out of reach of most people.  This is intentional.  In order to keep getting victory decorations with consistency, you need to do better than you did last streak.  This is hard, hence the challenge of it.

 

So, yes, long-haul two-seater missions, like recon or spotting or the general, may only give you 1 ground victory per sortie.  However, over the course of a normal streak, these single ground victories begin to add up quickly.  And thus, they fall in line with what you see regarding most scout pilots.  Most scout pilots (even our aces) rarely get 1 kill every single sortie.  And even when they can, these are usually only spurts, followed long gaps of nothing or death / capture.  As a result, long-haul two-seater missions are actually more in line with the statistical average of overall victories than you might think.  There's just a stigma attached to them which makes people think they're "unexciting", "not worth as much" or "underappreciated".

 

Secondly, it's important to understand that long-haul two-seater missions, like recon, are generally safer than close-air support or attack missions.  Yes, they are generally worth less, in that one recon (for example) is worth only 1.  And yes, there is always the chance of being intercepted while you're alone and deep behind enemy lines.  But recon pilots, for example, generally fly unspotted.  And if they know what they're doing, they are able to avoid most centers of enemy scouts, enemy flak and enemy AAA.  Compare this to the bomb carrying two-seater pilot, who has to fly into the hornets nest, and who may get 3 or 4 or 5 kills within one sortie, yet has a terrible attrition rate!  Most streaks for bomber or attack pilots are painfully short, yet very profitable in terms of kills.  Thus, the system evens itself out into that natural bell curve I mentioned above.

 

As an example, we have a long-haul two-seater pilot on the killboard right now who has an amazing streak building up by just doing long-haul A2G missions.  I won't name him for fear of jinxing him.  But he's almost to a Blue Max.  Meanwhile, Pragr (listed above) had an amazing 3 sorties as a bomber where he apparently killed half of Britain. Yet, he's now a prisoner of war, and is starting over again at 0.  Because attack missions like that are super dangerous.  If Pragr was a new pilot, he would have easily won victory medals.  However, he's not a new pilot, and thus needs to do better in order to gain his next decoration.  So, yes, they are not the same.  But there is a balance.

 

Finally, while the life of a long haul two-seater pilot is not glamorous, I actively try and use Merit Awards to show people just how much their contributions to the squadron are appreciated.  Esprit de corps!  Lee, for example, is a rock-star.  Yes, he was captured in Session B4, ending his streak. But his perseverance and determination in accomplishing the missions he accepts is something that should be celebrated, because it brings out all of our camaraderie.

 

So that's the method behind the madness.

 

I'm of course open to suggestions.  Check out the current system, found within the SOP section for Richthofen.  I can PM it to you if you can't find it.  Let me know what you think.


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#14 Etzel

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Posted 03 April 2019 - 03:26 PM

Thanks a lot Klaiber for the comprehensive explenation => with this approach the scoring makes more sense... :)


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#15 Luftritter

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Posted 04 April 2019 - 02:10 PM

IMHO I do think the Rescue / Pickup missions are under-rewarded.  Those missions require the pilot to land in enemy territory, so obviously they're at a disadvantage tactically; and having flares mark exactly where they are to defenders is especially dangerous.  While landing at aerodromes is often possible, at times they have to land planes that are difficult enough to land on a smooth aerodrome, on uneven, or tree-infested ground.  Some of the missions even require the mission plane to further foray into other dangerous enemy territories before the trip home to be fully successful.  In all cases, the planes start at ground level on their return trips, and are under time constraints that forbid them to take excessive time completing the mission safely, since their success depends on their return in time to allow secondary missions to take place.  In all cases, the ground level / low level requirements in enemy territory expose them to far more dangerous levels of flak throughout their missions.

 

In short, they're almost completely suicidal; more so when using ealier, poorer-climbing 2-seaters.  The odds do get better with later, faster planes that hopefully will be carrying a good human gunner; but they're still incredibly difficult.  In fact, there are few pilots who even want to attempt them, and honestly only do so for the benefit of the team, since death / capture is almost guaranteed.

 

I'd say that successful completion of those primary missions should be worth at least 3 ground kills / points.  IMHO, these would be the types of missions that would be considered one-off, medal winning missions, if they took place in WWI.


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#16 Kliegmann

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Posted 04 April 2019 - 02:20 PM

The General/Spy mission I agree with especially considering that after landing to PU the General/Spy, then the plane has to fly to a secondary to trigger it, then fly home, but the General/Spy DOES NOT have to land at a base, they can ditch on friendly territory, unlike the Rescue which MUST land at a friendly base.


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#17 Britchot

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Posted 04 April 2019 - 09:52 PM

I will provide insight to JG1 members to these queries and recommendations after I drop off my daughter. Look for a post within the combined section, later today.

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   "Es ist noch kein Meister vom Himmel gefallen."






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