Need unit information for...

[jim]

a diorama of the Battle of Britian. I need a German unit, or confirmation that JG1 was involved, but I don't think they were. Any unit will do, preferrably one that flew the 109 with the older canopy.

Thanks.

[Britchot]

II./JG1 was not formed until after the Battle of Britain. It was formed from I./JG3, which did fly

in BoB and then later in the Eastern Front. When I./JG3 was refit with 109F-4's they remained in Germany and were assigned to JG1 (circa November 1941). The Tatzelwurm on all II./JG1 aircraft is directly from I./JG3, so you could model a I./JG3 diorama, it would be the heritage of our Gruppe.

 

II./JG1- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jagdgeschwader_1_%28World_War_II%29

I./JG3- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jagdgeschwader_3

[Britchot]

Here's a link to Hans von Hahn's BoB paint scheme.

 

https://www.aviationillustration.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=55_65&products_id=641

[jim]

Thanks Britchot. I thought that JG1 would've been one of the first units reformed after the re-establishment of the Luftwaffe, considering it's history.

 

I have a shop manual of sorts on order for the plane, I'm trying to get some of the color schemes of the engine plumbing and wiring so I can detail the mill. Most of what I have is black and white. I was told the only color they used for wiring was yellow. As someone who has rewired his car (pre-computer days when an engine was just that, just an engine) I can see the headache just one color would be to track down an electrical problem.

[Klaiber]

Thanks Britchot. I thought that JG1 would've been one of the first units reformed after the re-establishment of the Luftwaffe, considering it's history.

 

Almost all of the Jagdgeschwaders of the Second World War have a very convoluted and confusing history.

 

As the Luftwaffe was establishing itself organizationally during the inter-war years (from 1933 to 1939), many fighter wings and squadrons were created, disbanded, merged and renamed to conform with the new directives from the OKL (Oberkommando der Luftwaffe). As a result, there is no easy explanation for why certain units received certain numbers.

 

The WW2 version of JG1 thus has no ties to the WW1 version of JG1, just as the East German version of JG-1 has no ties to either Oesau or Richthofen.

 

For example, II./JG1's history goes something like this:

 

1 July 1938 : II./JG 137 created as a new unit at Zerbst, Germany.

 

1 November 1938 : II./JG 137 re-designated II./JG 231 at Zerbst, Germany.

 

1 May 1939 : II./JG 231 re-designated I./JG 3 at Zerbst, Germany.

 

15 January 1942 : I./JG 3 re-designated II./JG 1 at Katwijk, Netherlands.

 

30 April 1945 : I./JG 1 and II./JG 1 merged to form I. (Einsatz)/JG 1 and II. (Sammel)/JG 1 at Leck, Germany.

 

4 May 1945 : I. (Einsatz)/JG 1 and II. (Sammel)/JG 1 merged again to form special consolidated Intervention groups (Einsatzgruppen)

 

5 May 1945 : ETO ends, all Einsatzgruppen disbanded.

 

Not sure if that helps.

[jim]

Sounds like the Germans were employing a tactic to keep the allies on their toes. Much like the a/c numbering system the Japanese used, all their manufacturing date codes found on their planes weren't sysquential. They numbered their planes in a way to throw off the allies from knowing how many planes they actually had.

 

This can screw up the intel that is so often used to identify and quatantate the enemy forces. Something that every Marine rifleman knows is needed when writing up a 5 paragraph order. In the which the units faced are named (unit designations), their numbers given in unit size (a reg. bat., so forth) and afew other incidentals related to the enemie's disposition is given. All adding up to, you quessed it, 5 paragraphs of information. It's been more than 30 years since I had to write one up so I'd have to go back to the books to do this subject justice.

 

But I can see the usefulness in keeping the unit organizations within the German military confusing. Not like us, they knew when they faced Patton. Except for D-Day of course.

[jim]

Here's a link to a pic. of the another side of this modeling hobby. Unfortunately the economy of life is such that I'm not sure if I'll get to my favorite subject, the AM6 Zero on the lower shelf. This model screams for a radial engine, of course.

 

The top fuse is the beginning of an FW 190. (Another candidate for a radial). Wood is cheap, but when you get to the working parts the cost sky rockets.

 

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii116/jimrired/002.jpg

[jim]

He[h][/h]re's a link to a pic. of the another side of this modeling hobby. Unfortunately the economy of life is such that I'm not sure if I'll get to my favorite subject, the AM6 Zero on the lower shelf. This model screams for a radial engine, of course.

 

The top fuse is the beginning of an FW 190. (Another candidate for a radial). Wood is cheap, but when you get to the working parts the cost sky rockets.

 

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii116/jimrired/002.jpg

[Klaiber]

Sounds like the Germans were employing a tactic to keep the allies on their toes. Much like the a/c numbering system the Japanese used, all their manufacturing date codes found on their planes weren't sysquential. They numbered their planes in a way to throw off the allies from knowing how many planes they actually had.

 

I had a much longer response to this, but the website ate it. It's probably for the better, as it was long.

 

Either way, the 5 second version: I think you're 100% right. It's a deliberate obfuscation of strength designed to trick the French and the British during the interwar period into thinking the Luftwaffe is bigger than it actually was.

 

The Luftwaffe circa 1935 had 20 front line squadrons. However, they weren't anywhere near fighting strength. When the Germans retook the Rhineland in 1936, for example, He 51's were flying over German troops in order to protect them. However, they had no ammunition! The whole thing was an elaborate gamble, with the Germans betting that the French would avoid a war at all cost.

 

Regarding naming convensions of squadrons:

 

The first squadrons in the Luftwaffe (circa 1934 through 1935) were called Fliegerstaffeln within the German military, with a "J" used to denote a fighter squadron. For example: Fliegerstaffel (J) 1.

 

Often, however, these Fleigerstaffeln would have public names to make them sound innocuous. Remember, prior to 1935, the Luftwaffe was a clandestine organization.

 

So, for example, the squadron which would eventually become JG2 was officially called DVL Reklame-Staffel Mitteldeutschland in 1934/5. It means: Central Germany Publicity Squadron.

 

Either way:

 

These Fligerstaffel, in 1935, started to adopted the naming syntax that we recognize from the Second World War. For example: Fliegerstaffel (J) 1 (my example from before) became 1./JG136.

 

However, all of the Jagdgeschwaders had triple numbers at this point. JG134, JG135, JG232, etc.

 

This is probably to make the uninformed think that there were lower numbered Jagdgeschwaders out there too, even though at this point they didn't exist.

 

This triple number style of designation lasted right up until the Spring of 1939. Specifically, they lasted until May of 1939. In May 1939, all squadrons shifted in unison to the more simpler number system we recognize from the Second World War.

 

Why? Probably because Fall Weiss (the Invasion of Poland) was about 3 months away. And at this point, obfuscation became less important than command and control.

 

For example: I./JG130 becomes I./JG1, I./JG131 becomes I./JG2, II./JG231 becomes I./JG3, etc.

 

Overall, it's an extremely interesting subject.

[Klaiber]

He[h][/h]re's a link to a pic. of the another side of this modeling hobby. Unfortunately the economy of life is such that I'm not sure if I'll get to my favorite subject' date=' the AM6 Zero on the lower shelf. This model screams for a radial engine, of course.

 

The top fuse is the beginning of an FW 190. (Another candidate for a radial). Wood is cheap, but when you get to the working parts the cost sky rockets.

 

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii116/jimrired/002.jpg[/quote']

 

These are amazing. Outstanding work!

 

If you don't mind, you should post a picture of what they look like when done.

[jim]

Yesah, the Germans were masters at proproganda. The units being given innocous names to hide the true intent of the German military was also translated in other ways. As with the aircraft themselves, like the JU 51 (?) tri-motor transport and flying pencil (DO-117?) being advertised as commercial airlines when first developed. With the hidden ability to easily be transformed to bombers when the time came. And of course the rage of the day, air racing, helped to develop some fine technology that could easily be used in the war effort.

Even the ground troops were involved in this clandestine scam. To promote itself to be stronger than it was to the German people I heard they would parade in a circle by going around the city block. The audience would see some units 2 or 3 times in one parade. I find it facinating that Hitler's intent wasn't a protracted war but a quick decisive victory over his enemies. And with that mindset started to de-militerize even before the war was over. Good thing for the allies.

 

Thanks for the well wishes on the RC A/C. If I get them done I'll be sure to post some pics. I almost bought the retracting tail wheel for the Zero, but thought the $130.00 would be better spent on a new virtual aircraft, ie computer. Too many hobbies not enough dinero.