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Pragr

New joystick

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My current joystick (Cobra M5 Defender) is about to go to the silicon heaven. The spring holding the stick in neutral position gave it up yesterday during evasive moves when P-40 bounced me while I was escorting Etzel's Heinkel. The stick is working in fact but with no centering force I have to hold it in the neutral position by myself. The most hilarious consequence is that I was able to shot down that attacking P-40 anyway and made perfect landing on home airfield (I don't even remember when I made such perfect three-point landing with no bounce in Bf 109 :) ). So I'm absolutely in for Saturday FiF. I suppose the weekend will be fun as hell :D

 

Anyway there's my new joystick that should arrive on Monday:

 

Ravcore-Javelin-2.jpg

 

If it looks familiar to you then you're right. It is the replica of KG12 control stick used in Bf 109 and Fw 190.

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That performance was awesome, Pragr, was a cool mission we had yesterday!  :D

 

I am also curious what Joystick the new one is and what you report about it then... My beloved X52 pro will sooner or later also reach the end of it's life cycle...  :rolleyes:

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That performance was awesome, Pragr, was a cool mission we had yesterday!  :D

 

I am also curious what Joystick the new one is and what you report about it then... My beloved X52 pro will sooner or later also reach the end of it's life cycle...  :rolleyes:

 

I destroyed at least three sets of Saitek X52Pro in my virtual pilot career. It is great set and I loved to use the thumb ministick for looking around. But the interconnecting PS2 cable drove me crazy for too long :) Now I'm using the Thrustmaster TWCS throttle:

 

https://www.czc.cz/thrustmaster-twcs-throttle-pc/199356/produkt?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIzJOjxqGH2QIVqhXTCh1UzguYEAQYASABEgJW_PD_BwE

 

and hopefully the new control stick would be as good as the TWCS. Both actually cost about 65 Euros each so the overall price is about 2/3 of Saitek X52 Pro set (based on amazon.de's prices).

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Got me looking, VKB "Gunfighter Pro MK.II"

 

WOW!!     :lol:   WOW!  WOW!!

 

Stick extension and everything!  The button configuration is a lot more what looks like I'd want....but it's hard to tell exactly what they are (I prefer 4-way hats to 8-way hats).

 

Awesome Joystick

 

This is looking mighty interesting for the not too distant future!  Thanks guys!!

 

VKB_MCG-Pro_GFPro_01.jpg

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Thought this deserved to be revisited.  Anybody know what happened to this company (VKB) ?  They seem to have few if any of their products actually available to purchase anymore.

 

@ Loopy, I remember when we talked and you had found another European company that made very high quality joysticks; but I can't remember the name of that other company.  Do you recall it, and do you know if they're still viable?  S!

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VKB is actually killing it tight now, but from what I hwar they only sell in waves. They can't keep up with production, so they sell out immediately. They did, according to their Facebook page, just buy a new manufacturing wearhouse which is exciting! I really want one of those Gunfighters!

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Virpil is the other anufacturer. I'm seriously considering.

https://virpil.com/en/

 

That's the one I was asking Loopy about!  Thanks!

 

Sounds and looks awesome, but mounting would be a problem.  The desk mount bracket they sell looks monstrous and I can't see how that wouldn't get in the way of your legs.  It bugs me that the pictures they have of it have no scale at all, so it could be any size; and none of the pictures show it mounted to a desk, and there's no dimensions at all given.

 

I thing I could figure out how to flush mount it in what I have by cutting a hole and letting it protrude through the underside, but it would take some work.

 

If VKB has nothing available the next time their availability date comes around in a couple of weeks, I'll get one of these.

 

Thanks again!

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Well that's just awesome, thanks!

 

I can see now that those mounts are made for the long shaft extensions; that makes a lot more sense....to use one for a short shaft would be kind of a waste.

 

My biggest concern about the mount is that it puts the stick far out from the mounting surface.  That would mean that I would have to have a far reach to my throttle quadrant with my left hand, and the stick would be much nearer to me for my right.

 

The solution would be to get two of the mounts, and use one for the quadrant.  The mount fits their own throttle and they have adapter plates for others, like the Warthog throttle.  However, none of those are multi-axis quadrants, and I've really grown used to having that feature.  I think I could gin up an adapter plate for what I have pretty easily.

 

One very interesting item of interest between the two sticks is that the VKB has 20 degrees of movement, and the Virpil has 15.  Theoretically, this would make the VKB more accurate in control.  However, with the stick extension, 20 degrees of movement might seem excessive.  Here's my take on it:  You can always reduce the amount of degrees that it takes to get to 100% by creating a dead zone of any size you want, at the end of any axis.  However, you can't make one larger.  In my opinion, the whole idea of using a stick extension would be to eliminate the need for response curves at all, since the stick is (nearly) the same length as the original in the real airplane.

 

The Virpil also comes with 3 different spring sets, so the weak spring symptom this guy had with the VKB would seem very unlikely.  He does make a big thing out of the adjust-on-the-fly feature the Virpil has; however, that's just a fine adjustment.  The really good feature is the changeable springs and the fact that it comes with them (as well as 3 different centering cams).

 

It's all a moot point if you can't actually purchase a VKB though; and I have an idea that 15 degrees would be pretty practical with the stick extension; and with the Virpil, you can not only get 3 different lengths, I'm thinking you might also be able to gang two or more together.  In terms of accuracy, what matters in the end is how far the stick travels at the top where the grip is.  If that's the case, you could get the same amount of travel just by lengthening the extension and lowering the base.

 

Interesting!  Exciting!

 

Thanks!

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You can see in Vonrd's video that the mounting device is positioned in the middle of the pedals (your legs would go around it).  The other mount is off to the side of his left leg.  I still kind of wonder if that would interfere with your legs at all.  That would get irritating.

 

I've been checking what I've got right now, and the stick is mounted right above my right leg on top of the keyboard tray.  It is mounted off center to the right, almost in line with my right hand.  The throttle quadrant is mounted in front of my left hand.  When I move my pedals, my legs are very close to the bottom of the keyboard tray; they almost touch it.  So, I don't thing buying the Virpil without an extension on it would work, even if I flush-mounted it in the keyboard tray; too much of it would protrude below.

 

Even sticks that offer a surface mount plate version, like the VKB or TM Warthog, still stick up quite a way due to the gimbal; and the footprint of the plate they sit on is pretty big.  No matter what, it's going to be significantly different than what I have now.

 

It's hard to envision the best solution.

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My current joystick (Cobra M5 Defender) is about to go to the silicon heaven. 

 

Pagr, you can buy the VKB version here. They have them in stock atm. http://store.x-plane.org/

 

The great thing about this stick is that it has an ARM processor onboard so that all the bindings are stored on the stick itself.

 

S!

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Update on the Virpil line.  I also posted a related thread on the space sims area of the forum.  They came out with a new base that can be used for conventional desk mount, called the "WarBRD", and it's compatible with their other grips.  They also came out with an entire stick based on that mount, but it's a stick type designed for space type sims.

 

I got tired of waiting for VKB and their lack of any assurances that you could ever actually buy a stick from them, and constantly pushing projected availability dates back.  I was impressed with the build quality of the Virpil bases, which can be seen in the video posted in the space sim area.  So I went ahead and pre-ordered a WarBRD base, and also ordered the Mongoose T-50 grip which is a grip very similar to the VKB Gunfighter MKII grip and is of course configured for flight sims.

 

One other feature about it that I'm very happy with is that the new base is fully compatible with their long-stick mounting system, and of course the stick extentions; and it has the stronger springs included that you would most likely use if you were to do that.  So you're not restricted to a desktop only type of unit.

 

Also their HOTAS throttle looks extremely interesting, useful and high quality.  I didn't purchase that at this time, but it looks like it could easily take the place of my quadrant if I wanted to do that in the future.

 

The whole total costed just over $428.62 US, including shipping from Belarus.  I'm excited to try this out when everything eventually arrives.  I had to wait a while for my Milan Flight Gear pedals, and the wait was well worth it....so I'll wait for this new stick base also; but at least it's actually ordered and processing.

 

I'll keep you updated if you're interested.  Thanks again to Vonrd and Loopy for initially directing me to the Virpil line.

 

S!

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Another update on the Virpil line.  One, they've consolidated their sales into one site instead of a european and north american site; it is now only an EU site (their "worldwide" store).

 

Two, unfortunately they have to some extent adopted the VKB business model....in other words, you can't "pre-order" anything anymore.  An item is either in stock or not in stock.  If it's not in stock, your only option is to get on an email list to be notified when it is in stock.  Their previous method of operating is the whole reason I chose to deal with them over VKB.  With VKB and their very tiny production of maybe a dozen units at a time, it's most probable that you'll never get one, considering that the units are bought up before you can ever get a chance to order one, once notified.  With VKB, it's kind of like e-Bay.  Somebody always gets in before you.

 

The good news is that so far, Virpil seems to have better ability to supply.  By that I mean that I was going to buy a T-50 throttle, but they weren't in stock, so I put my name on the email list, not expecting much.  However, within 2 weeks I received a notice (today) and immediately acted on it, and actually got a T-50 throttle on order.

 

There's been some real confusion going on at the Virpil website, considering that they've moved their production to a new site, and changed their website over to a completely new one.  This happened in the middle of my first order being fulfilled....the WarBRD base and T-50 Mongoos grip.  For a while I couldn't track my order, which was disconcerting....they told me I had to create a whole new account, and even once I did....my original order info was missing.  However, my original order has been shipped and has tracking information, which I found out through their support.  Last I saw it left Minsk and should be coming via USPS Priority Mail in the near future.

 

The Throttle order has been accepted and there is a record of it.  Since it was one of a batch that they just had in stock, it should progress pretty quickly, as these things go.

 

These things are not cheap!!  The first order of base and grip cost me very close to $433.00, including shipping, which is a lot.  The second order of throttle only, cost $419.00 including shipping.  The throttle is basically 300 euros, not including shipping.  Pretty expensive!  But if I'm any where near as happy with this stuff as I am with my MFG Pedals, it will be well worth it.  These things are going to require a lot of modifications to my physical setup, so I'm not going to dive into that until we have some break between FiF's.  Once I figure out what I need to do with mounting/strengthening/spring tension/cam profiles, I'll set it all up....maybe in the Christmas time frame.

 

They have a high standard to live up to; my CH gear has been bullet-proof, once I figured it out; and to be honest, having trim wheels on the pitch and roll axis is something almost nobody else has....which would be something that in FC could be a game changer.

 

Hope I'm making the right decision!

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