Barton Posted July 15, 2019 Report Share Posted July 15, 2019 I don't know why but the video was set to private. This has been rectified. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dudley Posted July 15, 2019 Report Share Posted July 15, 2019 Hmmm... YouTube tells me this video is unavailable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vonrd Posted July 15, 2019 Report Share Posted July 15, 2019 Same Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klaiber Posted July 15, 2019 Report Share Posted July 15, 2019 Gunner Issues "They" Don't Want You to Know About.TM Not sure who remembers those commercials. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IRFC Hawkeye Posted July 15, 2019 Report Share Posted July 15, 2019 Subject sounds like it might be interesting, though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludwig Posted July 15, 2019 Report Share Posted July 15, 2019 didn't work for me either, tried searching under the subject but found nothing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barton Posted July 15, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2019 Fixed it IRFC Hawkeye 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kliegmann Posted July 15, 2019 Report Share Posted July 15, 2019 This issue is in the forums. This has been a problem for quite some time, and it only effects MP. If you attack in SP, the gunners are ALOT less accurate. People are always using the PE-2 as their example, but I am curious if the problem is across the board, or is it just the PE-2, or Russian aircraft in general? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barton Posted July 16, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2019 Sharfi posted a video of a bf-110 gunner annihilating her P-47 in about 2 seconds so it definitely is not limited to the Pe-2 but from what I understand it is all tailgunners and ground AAA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IRFC Hawkeye Posted July 16, 2019 Report Share Posted July 16, 2019 0:23 "Oh, Pen1s" I think there must be something wrong with me In all seriousness, from the video it appears that the gunners are able to shoot from angles that they can't possibly be able to point their guns to. And, even if you disregard that, ask yourself this: even at extreme angle shooting, those gunners can't possibly be putting their faces behind the gun sight. That is, at best, they're "shooting from the hip". So achieving that kind of accuracy at even angles that are in fact possible, is so improbable that it defies all odds of getting hits. So at this point it's necessary to go into the whole MMP problem. What you SEE is not at all times what is actually HAPPENING. YOU may see the gunner hit you at a certain point; but the GAME may have decided that you were hit quite a way before that; so the way it plays out in video review (or your real-time MMP view) is not nearly what is going on as far as the game + server is concerned. Throw all that out the window and there is still a lot that's suspect, obviously. What exactly is the caliber of the SINGLE gun that the gunner is firing at you? Is it EVER realistic that it could FLAME a metal plane that quickly, which is otherwise capable of standing up to quite a bit of damage from multi-very-large-caliber-gun damage from other aircraft, so easily? I mean, it is always possible that a partially or almost fully empty tank full of fumes can explode, and I will not pretend to know exactly when rubber, self sealing tanks came into existence; but since the Japanese were famous for not having them in their zeros in WWII, one has to assume others did have something better. As Kliegmann said "it only effects MP", and that is not surprising and is honestly a recurring theme in these sims. In RoF, obviously made FAR in advance of this game, there's a huge gap between how game sounds work in MP and SP. In SP, you get at least enough sounds to know when you're taking fire or being hit. In MP, you most often get nothing at all and breakup can come as a complete surprise, having received no warning. Just an example that may show that MP will always have noticeable problems that can never be totally overcome, or at least not without serious re-write of the game kernel itself. I don't know about you guys, but I look at them as two separate games: the MP game and the SP game. There are similarities, but even the FM's and DM"s do not act exactly the same, and you have to get a handle on that in order to compete successfully online. That aspect comes without even thinking to veterans, for sure; they just take it for granted and don't even think about it. Possibly the best MP pilots never even fly SP and never even notice or think about it. From an outsider's point of view, that has to rank as an extremely grave problem that needs to be fixed. Klaiber 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kliegmann Posted July 16, 2019 Report Share Posted July 16, 2019 PE-2 Defensive armament: Top: 7.62mm machine gun "ShKAS", 750 rounds, 1800 rounds per minute Belly: 12.7mm machine gun "UB", 200 rounds, 1000 rounds per minute Side: 7.62mm machine gun "ShKAS", 225 rounds, 1800 rounds per minute Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IRFC Hawkeye Posted July 17, 2019 Report Share Posted July 17, 2019 So .30 cal (single?) for most.... would have guessed as much. Great rate of fire, though! .50 cal in the belly, that would hurt; but must be for attacking ground targets, in that position. Sounds like it would be fun to gun in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barton Posted July 17, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2019 I have seen videos of Pe-2 Gunners with a single .30 take apart Fw-190s faster than I could with all eight .50s in a P-47. The damage they can do is absurd. And it's like a light switch. one millisecond they can't get close to hitting you with a shot that any noob could score hits on and the next they just decide you shouldn't exist anymore, so you don't. Kliegmann 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IRFC Hawkeye Posted July 17, 2019 Report Share Posted July 17, 2019 Yup, the damage causing ability and range of those guns as they are and what they should be is the major argument, for sure. Just for interest sake, what was the ping on those MP servers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barton Posted July 17, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2019 it was WoL so somewhere around the 200 range. The lag can account for some of the odd angles hits get registered at on the client end but that just means that the gunners are that much quicker on the draw, which is just as bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pfeil Posted July 18, 2019 Report Share Posted July 18, 2019 The gunners are the reason why the Heinkel 111 H16 is such a beast to shoot down. With 13mm machine gun on top and the twin down all belt fed it can shoot down any fighter. One time I shot down 3 fighters attacking me and went down only after the 4th one rammed me. IRFC Hawkeye 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IRFC Hawkeye Posted July 19, 2019 Report Share Posted July 19, 2019 Lol, what's the technique for doing that? Just fly straight? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pfeil Posted July 19, 2019 Report Share Posted July 19, 2019 Very high (7 km) and straight. They have to climb to you and the belly gunner is having a field day. After they climb up they meet your top gunner. IRFC Hawkeye 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IRFC Hawkeye Posted July 19, 2019 Report Share Posted July 19, 2019 Do you do that with bombs on? 111 was kind of a sitting duck during the battle of Britain, wasn't it? I thought even the early model hurricanes had little trouble downing them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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