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Anybody else bothered by the "Hick" breathing (if that is what it's supposed to be)?

BTW, reliable sources have said that Tues is the day.

I'm going to delete my "Updates" folder just in case. Last update it was a problem.

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2 hours ago, Vonrd said:

Anybody else bothered by the "Hick" breathing (if that is what it's supposed to be)?

 My ex-brother-in-law was a pilot and author and had flown along with some stunt team for an article he was working on. In high G maneuvers, he was instructed to tighten the diaphram in the chest and"grunt" to keep from passing out. (didn't work,we all got a laugh of the video with his head bobbling about while unconscious).. Perhaps that's what they are trying for.

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1 minute ago, J5_Gamecock said:

 My ex-brother-in-law was a pilot and author and had flown along with some stunt team for an article he was working on. In high G maneuvers, he was instructed to tighten the diaphram in the chest and"grunt" to keep from passing out. (didn't work,we all got a laugh of the video with his head bobbling about while unconscious).. Perhaps that's what they are trying for.

I don't think that procedure was discovered until many years after WWI... late WW2 maybe at the earliest. I've used it when flying aerobatics. It's a combination of expelling breath in bursts... the "Hick"...and tightening your abdominal muscles... the best way I can describe is what you do on the pot when you're constipated and trying to force one out. 😋

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According to High G Physiological Protection Training - AGARD 1990 (page 3):

Quote

A type of AGSM [Anti-G Straining Maneuver] useful in flight was first the discovered as a method to increase G tolerance by Stainforth of England in 1933. He found that straining the abdominal muscles increased G tolerances 2 G, from 4 to 6 G. He also observed that the breath should not be held since it would interfere with venous return. Early in WW II, the Germans trained Stuka dive bomber aircrew to strain their abdominal muscles by encouraging them to learn and practice ski jumping.

With that in mind, the engine for Flying Circus also encompasses the WWII aircraft, which pilots were trained in a relative fashion to modern G-LOC preventive techniques. 

My bigger question is, why does the FC damage model allow the wing spars to tolerate sustained G forces high enough to warrant this technique? 

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1 hour ago, Britchot said:

My bigger question is, why does the FC damage model allow the wing spars to tolerate sustained G forces high enough to warrant this technique? 

'Cause the actual wing loading is so much less, is my guess.  The planes are far less heavy.  So I would guess that each G is less force on them than other birds.

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34 minutes ago, Luftritter said:

'Cause the actual wing loading is so much less, is my guess.  The planes are far less heavy.  So I would guess that each G is less force on them than other birds.

Based on calculated estimates of captured German aircraft in 1917, it was figured they could sustain 3-6Gs on the front spar and only 2-3.6Gs on the rear spar before failure. 

http://naca.central.cranfield.ac.uk/reports/arc/rm/350.pdf

However, numerous pilots were reported as "falling asleep in the air", or suffering G-LOC in WWI.  Untrained individuals can gray/black out around 3-4Gs. 

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So, are we saying it's plausible, or not, then?  It is kind of irritating.  The idea that it's because it's all one flight engine: you are saying that we have to endure it because it's going to be a feature on the WWII side?  I would ask this then, do the WWII birds hear oxygen breathing sounds starting at 3,000 m, like we do?  If it's there, but at a different altitude, should not the G levels (for breathing and gray-out/blackout) also be basically set high enough in FC that they wouldn't occur (much, if at all) before breakup?

One thing that really bugged me about RoF is that the blackout level seemed to be set differently for different planes.  I used to see it begin a lot flying the Camel, but almost never in any other plane. Of course the Camel turns tight, but a G is a G and if somebody else is making the exact same turn, shouldn't the effect on him be the same?  I specifically remember one fight I had in which I was in a diving turn, and a D.VIIF was right behind me.  I was turning as hard as the thing would turn, and I started to black out....severely.  He shot me in that condition.  He was right behind me in the same turn.  Why did I black out and not him?  It's a function of the man, not the machine.  I hate that kind of crap.

Besides, that guy who fell asleep in the air was Razwald, LOL  😅   J/K, it's all in good fun, buddy  😀

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53 minutes ago, Luftritter said:

So, are we saying it's plausible, or not, then?  It is kind of irritating.  The idea that it's because it's all one flight engine: you are saying that we have to endure it because it's going to be a feature on the WWII side?  I would ask this then, do the WWII birds hear oxygen breathing sounds starting at 3,000 m, like we do?  If it's there, but at a different altitude, should not the G levels (for breathing and gray-out/blackout) also be basically set high enough in FC that they wouldn't occur (much, if at all) before breakup?

Yes, we get oxygen sounds at 3k meters, also. Did they use supplemental oxygen in WWI? Hypoxic hypoxia should be modeled, instead.  Like when WWII birds get our oxygen systems damaged (although I never stayed up there long enough to find out).

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Can't play with the new toys! Got the Map update download and it's seems to have installed OK, but it gives me an error upon login:

  • "#1. No connection to authorization server."
  • "#2. Your connection to Mater-Server was temporarily lost. Check your internet connection."

My internet is just fine thank you (as you tell by this message.)

I can cancel login, get to Quick Mission and load the map. I can see the correct planes, from the menu,  but it won't let me pick a plane. 

Maybe they're updating the Authorization server? Tried a restart. Still no go!

Anyone else able to get in? I just have FC, no BoX. Suggestions?

=========================

Followup: Gen-Markof says his is working fine. I'll have to try deleting my Update folder and getting another download.

 

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3 hours ago, Britchot said:

Did they use supplemental oxygen in WWI?

Yes they did, but it was very limited....usually only on very high-flying German 2-seater photo-recons (like the Rumplers).  They could handle the extra weight and were made for all-out altitude.

I am not sure the form it took on the D.VII.  I think maybe they had an oxygen bottle they could take swigs from, as needed.  But I don't believe it was a full mask system like those 2-seaters had.  As for the Entente side, I don't remember even McCudden mentioning it.  I think they must have simply suffered the effects.

I think you are right about modelling effects of hypoxia, but it would necessarily need to be modeled equally for everybody.  Certainly, those effects figured very strongly in extreme high-altitude engagements.  Guys like McCudden who made a living doing that very thing, took great pains to acclimate themselves to it; and even that would not have worked for MOST pilots.

I have been over 10,000 ft and have not noticed being overly handicapped, although it is a known feature of hypoxia that you don't notice you're deteriorating.  So I think maybe it's over-kill to start that business on WWI planes when it is known they routinely flew well above that without oxygen.  However, in WWII, if oxygen was plentiful, maybe they did that as a matter of course.

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1 hour ago, Dudley said:

Can't play with the new toys! Got the Map update download and it's seems to have installed OK, but it gives me an error upon login:

  • "#1. No connection to authorization server."
  • "#2. Your connection to Mater-Server was temporarily lost. Check your internet connection."

My internet is just fine thank you (as you tell by this message.)

I can cancel login, get to Quick Mission and load the map. I can see the correct planes, from the menu,  but it won't let me pick a plane. 

Maybe they're updating the Authorization server? Tried a restart. Still no go!

Anyone else able to get in? I just have FC, no BoX. Suggestions?

=========================

Followup: Gen-Markof says his is working fine. I'll have to try deleting my Update folder and getting another download.

 

Mine didn't work either let me know how it goes I will check back later.

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No Joy Still!

Same message as above. If I put in a deliberate wrong password it comes back saying: "Wrong email or password", so it must be reaching the Authorization server.

If I try entering my usual password, it let's me in to the game, but still no planes available on Arras map. The planes do show on selection menu, but when I select them, they do not show on the "Your plane>>" panel - none. If I go to Multiplayer, I can join the J5 Chinese Server (it's the only FC server showing), and select and fly a DVA  no problem it works!!!

I'll have to post this on IL2: FC Support.

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