FiF mission Author?

[Flashy]

Hi everyone,

Just a quick question: who is the mission designer/author of the FiF missions? I want to pick their brain about some ME logic..

 

thanks!

[IRFC Hawkeye]

Sir Butzzell is the primary perpetrator.  Also I believe Sir Kliegmann has contributed some expertise.  There may be others.

[Klaiber]

@Butzzell and @Kliegmann would definitely be able to help.

[Butzzell]

anytime

[Kliegmann]

I can always answer any questions you may have

[Flashy]

Thanks guys, have seen Butzzell a PM. I had a question about the recon logic in the FiF missions and how it works. Not sure who is the right person to talk to about that, but lets see what Butzzell says.. 

[Butzzell]

The recon logic for RoF is a flash script made by AnKor85. It does not work for IL2 or FC.  The Logic he need is what Kliegmann is doing for IL2.

[Kliegmann]

If you're using IL2, one of the easiest ways, is if you're able, join us on Weds night, around 8 pm central.  We're currently testing for a WWII tourney, and you can see my logic in action, and also get a copy of it, cause the mission DLs with the mission.  But anyways, I use a simple complex trigger attached to a specific **Named** aircraft, and connected to subtitles and activations and deactivations.  VERY simple.  The "Recon" Aircraft passes over the target, this registers to a counter and the first of 3 subtitles.  When the recon plane passes over the target a third time, it activates the target, and turns off the recon ring.  As a side project I have started on a timed feature, so the recon acft has to remain in a designated area "taking pictures" for a period of time, but that it still in its infancy.

[J5_Gamecock]

4 hours ago, Kliegmann said:

If you're using IL2, one of the easiest ways, is if you're able, join us on Weds night, around 8 pm central.  We're currently testing for a WWII tourney, and you can see my logic in action, and also get a copy of it, cause the mission DLs with the mission.  But anyways, I use a simple complex trigger attached to a specific **Named** aircraft, and connected to subtitles and activations and deactivations.  VERY simple.  The "Recon" Aircraft passes over the target, this registers to a counter and the first of 3 subtitles.  When the recon plane passes over the target a third time, it activates the target, and turns off the recon ring.  As a side project I have started on a timed feature, so the recon acft has to remain in a designated area "taking pictures" for a period of time, but that it still in its infancy.

 This is great to hear! Appreciate all that you guys put into these things.

 

  Thanks!

[Flashy]

14 hours ago, Kliegmann said:

If you're using IL2, one of the easiest ways, is if you're able, join us on Weds night, around 8 pm central.  We're currently testing for a WWII tourney, and you can see my logic in action, and also get a copy of it, cause the mission DLs with the mission.  But anyways, I use a simple complex trigger attached to a specific **Named** aircraft, and connected to subtitles and activations and deactivations.  VERY simple.  The "Recon" Aircraft passes over the target, this registers to a counter and the first of 3 subtitles.  When the recon plane passes over the target a third time, it activates the target, and turns off the recon ring.  As a side project I have started on a timed feature, so the recon acft has to remain in a designated area "taking pictures" for a period of time, but that it still in its infancy.

Thanks Kliegmann, thats pretty much the solution I went for as well. 3 named recons that each have their own complex trigger, which activates other complex triggers as they are needed when the player takes off, flies over the target etc. It actually is pretty simple this way, and only results in 3-4 complex triggers active at any one time for the recon planes. I didnt need the counters and timers etc because the recon plane is only required to spot a target (in this case a panzer "division"), so there is no need for him to stay in the area or take pictures. Thanks again for all the replies and help!

[Butzzell]

On another note, The attached file is an up down counter. The triggers are complex triggers. These could be changed to a different type of input trigger if you want.

The output is the orange translator icon in the center. This array displays the status of a parameter in real time in the game by activating or deactivating the icon. The icon name is the output parameter text.  The icons could be changed to timers and the timers could be linked to the output that you want. You would have to replace the translator icons with individual timers. Like the timers on the outside of the array, they would have to be deactivated at the start. They would then all have to be hit by a timer after the array has activated the desired timer.Basically the up and down counter would be linked to a timer set to 2 seconds. This timer would connect or hit all output timers. Only the timer activated by the array would do anything.

The array starts at zero or an initial status and can count up 20 events. After a positive or up event detected it can count down when a negative or down event is detected.

 

1. input event detected

2. deactivate initial output.

3. Initial output or what happens at zero.

4. Activate the output from a positive event.

5. Positive event output.

6. Count down timer activated by 4 is now ready to receive count down input.

7. Same as 2 but for next positive input. Was labeled by mistake.

8. Timer for next positive input activated by 4.

 

Count down side works the same way.

This array was made for Kliegmann to display a specific parameter in game for constant monitoring of a status such as factory output or supply column resupply.

At this point I have not needed such an array so I have not modified it for other output.

attached file is this array.

counter up down.zip

[Vonrd]

 

 

[Kliegmann]

I use those for supply

[Flashy]

16 hours ago, Butzzell said:

On another note, The attached file is an up down counter. The triggers are complex triggers. These could be changed to a different type of input trigger if you want.

The output is the orange translator icon in the center. This array displays the status of a parameter in real time in the game by activating or deactivating the icon. The icon name is the output parameter text.  The icons could be changed to timers and the timers could be linked to the output that you want. You would have to replace the translator icons with individual timers. Like the timers on the outside of the array, they would have to be deactivated at the start. They would then all have to be hit by a timer after the array has activated the desired timer.Basically the up and down counter would be linked to a timer set to 2 seconds. This timer would connect or hit all output timers. Only the timer activated by the array would do anything.

The array starts at zero or an initial status and can count up 20 events. After a positive or up event detected it can count down when a negative or down event is detected.

 

1. input event detected

2. deactivate initial output.

3. Initial output or what happens at zero.

4. Activate the output from a positive event.

5. Positive event output.

6. Count down timer activated by 4 is now ready to receive count down input.

7. Same as 2 but for next positive input. Was labeled by mistake.

8. Timer for next positive input activated by 4.

 

Count down side works the same way.

This array was made for Kliegmann to display a specific parameter in game for constant monitoring of a status such as factory output or supply column resupply.

At this point I have not needed such an array so I have not modified it for other output.

attached file is this array.

counter up down.zip 7.12 kB · 0 downloads

oh cool, thanks! That is really awesome - will give it a look.  The main reason I have wanted a negative operator on a counter is to keep track of the number of planes in a particular area. If you look at how other missions (including the SP campaign) decide if a ground target should be spawned, it always seems to involve a fairly complex combination of checkzones or complex triggers to detect planes, or just a timer to despawn them after X number of minutes. The SP missions for example use two checkzones called Further and Closer to determine if planes are near enough to spawn the ground units, then despawn them when they are further away than X km. I have always thought it would be much easier to just have one complex trigger and keep track of how many planes have entered, and how many have left/died. So, for each plane that enters, you increment the counter. For each plane that dies/exits/leaves, you decrement the counter. When the counter hits 0 - despawn the units. So if 5 planes flew into the area, and only 3 are left or have died(exited, whatever) then you know to keep the ground units active. As I said earlier, Ankor built a similar mechanism to the counter you attached a while back for RoF, but I think we had issues with the speed at which events could be counted - I found it was quite easy to trigger events too quickly for the counter to count, and then the logic would break. For example, if you had two Spads in a dive flying close together enter the zone, it would only count one. I would imagine that problem would be even worse for WW2 planes that are much faster.  Do you perhaps know what the "response time" of your counter is? Have you ever used it for events that occur in quick succession?

[Flashy]

Just another quick question: I have been playing with this counter a bit and I am noticing some..odd behaviour. I added simple increment and decrement logic to both sides, changed the inputs to timers and it seems to count up perfectly fine, but coming back down it does weird stuff, with a whole bunch of the translators being activated at the same time. It also doesnt go back down past 30, and the 0 and 33 translator is always on. I tried adding a bit of a delay into my count logic, but it didnt fix it. I also changed the number of increments to only 15 in case I was trying to count past what the counter could handle, but it still breaks on the decrement operation. Could you maybe take a look and see what is going on? There are little subtitles in the left and right bottom corner showing when the up and down operation is being triggered.. 

 

oh, and I also started adding extra timers to replace the translators, but they arent doing anything at the moment or being triggered, so ignore them  

Counter Test.zip

[Kliegmann]

The problem with the event happening too close to another event, and one not registering is still a problem.  I have several facilities that require the destruction of multiple targets within the facility.To calculate battle damage to the facility, I have the OnKill event linked to several Millisecond timers that go into counters to prevent this.

Regarding the detection of units, one of the things you have to be careful of is resource use.  a single complex trigger uses more resources that 2 prox triggers, or checkzones.  I personally use checkzones for things like spawning AAA, or ground targets that dont move.  The current problem with checkzones is they dont work in MP unless youre using a Deserver outside of the game launched server.  I use complex triggers for the detection of specific units, like planes labeled "Recon", or detect the take off of a 109, instead of the take off of a 110, ect.  Anything that can be mass detected, like all german aircraft, I'll use checkzones.

 

One of the problems with a counter, is it can only count up, or reset, as far as I know right now.  I know there are two new Modifier MCUs, but I have yet to figure them out.

[Butzzell]

S!

 

Yes, there was a problem counting down at 11 to 10.  I also increased the delay between mission start and the input timer sequence. The inputs were being activated before the array was set.  I added some extra deactivations to the timers. It then worked as expected.

I went back and added the uoutput timers you had started to put in. Each one is connected to a subtitle. The subtitle displays the timer number.  If you switch from your map to screen you can see the icon on the map and then the subtitle on the playing screen.

Also, I think I changed the player plane you had. Sorry. 

Very easy to just delete the orange translator icons to get rid of them. It will not affect the output timers.

counteer redo.zip

[Flashy]

9 hours ago, Kliegmann said:

The problem with the event happening too close to another event, and one not registering is still a problem.  I have several facilities that require the destruction of multiple targets within the facility.To calculate battle damage to the facility, I have the OnKill event linked to several Millisecond timers that go into counters to prevent this.

Regarding the detection of units, one of the things you have to be careful of is resource use.  a single complex trigger uses more resources that 2 prox triggers, or checkzones.  I personally use checkzones for things like spawning AAA, or ground targets that dont move.  The current problem with checkzones is they dont work in MP unless youre using a Deserver outside of the game launched server.  I use complex triggers for the detection of specific units, like planes labeled "Recon", or detect the take off of a 109, instead of the take off of a 110, ect.  Anything that can be mass detected, like all german aircraft, I'll use checkzones.

 

One of the problems with a counter, is it can only count up, or reset, as far as I know right now.  I know there are two new Modifier MCUs, but I have yet to figure them out.

Thanks, yeah that is a good solution to staggering the events to prevent overwhelming the counter. Will try it!

Its funny, I have also read that checkzones dont work for non-dedicated server MP missions, but in the mission I am making now, they are working in non-dedicated. Although they werent intially, so I dont know whats going on! Maybe they work intermittently or something, but I'll test it some more.  I copied the artillery battery spawning logic from the SP campaign mission and pretty much pasted it into my mission and changed it to all allied planes and it does spawn the guns when an AI plane enters.. weird..

As far as I can tell, the new MCU's allow for setting the value of a counter to something else, and for adding a fixed value to a counter. Although I cant think of a situation in which that would be useful.. yet..

[Flashy]

9 hours ago, Butzzell said:

S!

 

Yes, there was a problem counting down at 11 to 10.  I also increased the delay between mission start and the input timer sequence. The inputs were being activated before the array was set.  I added some extra deactivations to the timers. It then worked as expected.

I went back and added the uoutput timers you had started to put in. Each one is connected to a subtitle. The subtitle displays the timer number.  If you switch from your map to screen you can see the icon on the map and then the subtitle on the playing screen.

Also, I think I changed the player plane you had. Sorry. 

Very easy to just delete the orange translator icons to get rid of them. It will not affect the output timers.

counteer redo.zip 17.25 kB · 0 downloads

Thanks Butzzell, seems to be working correctly now! 

[J5_Gamecock]

 Would you guys take this outside... all this technical jargon is ruining everybody's drinking.

 

 (jest kiddin')

[Butzzell]

S!

 

Good reason to start drinking. I talked with Deciman and AnKor and the photo recon thing from RoF will not go in IL2/FC.  Deciman has tried and failed. He sent me a copy of the project and links to the programs to work with it. I examined it and understand it. I also understand that it would take me a year of tutorials and practice projects to even get close to the basics of what they have done. So looks like we are back to complex triggers for recons.

[Flashy]

On 5/28/2019 at 11:17 PM, Kliegmann said:

The problem with the event happening too close to another event, and one not registering is still a problem.  I have several facilities that require the destruction of multiple targets within the facility.To calculate battle damage to the facility, I have the OnKill event linked to several Millisecond timers that go into counters to prevent this.

Been thinking about this a bit more, and would like to know more about how you "stagger" the events using timers and counters. Do you perhaps have a group I could look at if its not too much trouble? As we know, we all spawn objects using triggers when players enter certain areas to prevent too many objects being active at any one time, but its still possible (although unlikely) that 10 players will simultaneously enter 10 different areas and spawn too many objects. So, I was wondering if it might be possible to create something in the mission that keeps track of how many objects are active (like the counter logic) and only spawns an object if the mission can afford it. Something along the lines of a "can I spawn?" master timer that gets disabled once 40 (for example) objects have been spawned, enabled again once there are less than 40 active, and against which any new object trying to spawn gets checked before spawning. I thought it might be possible to do this by expanding Butzzell's timer to be able to count to 40, and then somehow staggering the spawn and delete events created during the mission to that they can be reliably counted by the counter logic. What do you guys think? Possible?

[Butzzell]

S!

 

I use a single mission start for all missions. When the mission starts I have it do almost all random selections. There are about 30 initial counters staggered at about 3 seconds each.

For FiF many things are are spawned and then removed after a target is killed. Most of the time there are less than 60 linked entities active. Occasionally there may be several AAA guns activates as people go close to Balloons or  front line areas. Most of the time we do not exceed 80 entities.

Somewhere in the IL2 forums there is a thread about limiting AI depending on the number of players. It either allows AI to spawn or deletes them when a certain number of players are present. That was a year ago I think.

The counter posted earlier is easily modified to count large numbers. That first counter on each side is set to 1 and the reset box is checked. It counts each individual event linked to it. Just change that counter to 2. It then takes two events to count up or down. That means it takes 40 events to move only 20 units up or down. Be sure to select the appropriate out put for the number you want.

It is easy to count players spawning but what about players that leave the server. How do you know how many are still in? What about a player that gets shot down and respawns? Ten players could look like forty in a very short time.

Seriously, I would limit the number of AI planes to under 10 at any one time. IL2 does not like a lot of AI planes. They are resource intensive and slow the program down.

Sorry this was not very helpful.

 

[Kliegmann]

In my mission, I have a group that counts the number of vehicles entering a zone, then (OnObjectEntered) is sent to a series of 1 second timers, that then go into my supply counter group.  You could use a complex trigger, or proximity trigger to "count up" the number of objects entering a zone, then have another slightly larger one to count when they leave.  At certain points along the counter group, you can have activate and deactivate linked to spawners.

[Flashy]

12 hours ago, Butzzell said:

For FiF many things are are spawned and then removed after a target is killed. Most of the time there are less than 60 linked entities active. Occasionally there may be several AAA guns activates as people go close to Balloons or  front line areas. Most of the time we do not exceed 80 entities.

Okay, thats a lot more than I had actually thought were possible. I had seen people over on the Il-2 forums saying that more than 30 active at a time was problematic, so 80 is definitely an improvement.

12 hours ago, Butzzell said:

Somewhere in the IL2 forums there is a thread about limiting AI depending on the number of players. It either allows AI to spawn or deletes them when a certain number of players are present. That was a year ago I think.

Thanks, I'll try find that - would be useful!

12 hours ago, Butzzell said:

It is easy to count players spawning but what about players that leave the server. How do you know how many are still in? What about a player that gets shot down and respawns? Ten players could look like forty in a very short time.

Seriously, I would limit the number of AI planes to under 10 at any one time. IL2 does not like a lot of AI planes. They are resource intensive and slow the program down.

Sorry this was not very helpful.

 

Yes, well that is the reason I wanted a negative operator on the counter - it would make counting deaths and disconnects possible. I dont think respawns matter as long as you can count the death.. 

I'm not actually that concerned with counting players (I have basically given up on being able to do that for now - we dont have the tools) but I know that I can count AI to some extent. Thats why I wanted to try and use the negative counter logic to keep the number of active AI at around 40 at all times. That way, it should never reach the point of overloading the server, no matter how many players "trigger" AI spawners.. 

Thanks, it was very helpful actually!

 

9 hours ago, Kliegmann said:

In my mission, I have a group that counts the number of vehicles entering a zone, then (OnObjectEntered) is sent to a series of 1 second timers, that then go into my supply counter group.  You could use a complex trigger, or proximity trigger to "count up" the number of objects entering a zone, then have another slightly larger one to count when they leave.  At certain points along the counter group, you can have activate and deactivate linked to spawners.

I'm not sure I quite understand this though - how do the timers stagger the events then if they are all set to 1 second? So lets say you have a flight of Spads in close formation entering a zone: the first one enters at 0 seconds, the 2nd enters at 500 milliseconds, the third at 1 second etc. If I then put those events into 1 second timers, I'm still only going to have half a second delay when all those timers go off? How do you "add time" to each of those events so that they can be counted by the counter logic?