update 3.201 is released

[Stuka]

S! guys!

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/12826-game-updates/page/2/?tab=comments#comment-824612

 

[Stuka]

S! Guys!

Oh man.. oh man...
 

[Razwald]

So another change is if trim is on a axis in the aircraft its an axis in game. 

Except for the 109 that is still a push button in game. Despite having a wheel for trim. Not sure why that is still a 2 button trim but I'm glad. 

The 190 had electric controls for trim so that is correct.

Aircraft like the P-51, P-38, La-5, are now trimmed out with axis controls.

[IRFC Hawkeye]

2 hours ago, Razwald said:

So another change is if trim is on a axis in the aircraft its an axis in game.

So are you saying it's more limited than before, or more universal?

One thing I hate is when they separate control functions so much between planes.  Ya, ya, realism.  But people don't have all the buttons and levers available for every different plane; nor do they want to have to remember a completely different setup for each plane.  What is really good is when you can use EITHER a pair of buttons, OR an axis, and it works either way.  That would be nice.

In that regard, is it better than before, or is it worse?

[Vonrd]

1 hour ago, Luftritter said:

So are you saying it's more limited than before, or more universal?

One thing I hate is when they separate control functions so much between planes.  Ya, ya, realism.  But people don't have all the buttons and levers available for every different plane; nor do they want to have to remember a completely different setup for each plane.  What is really good is when you can use EITHER a pair of buttons, OR an axis, and it works either way.  That would be nice.

In that regard, is it better than before, or is it worse?

Slightly better if you want to have trim as an axis. I use hat switch for all trims though so it's just an initial PITA for me just to re-do the mapping. 

Why they have to separate it into several names of something that does the same thing... pitch trim is pitch trim no matter what actual mechanism accomplishes it. Adjustable stab or trim tab... doesn't matter... it's the same damn thing as far as what the pilot needs to accomplish and if the pilot didn't know how it was done he wouldn't be able to tell you what causes the plane to do his bidding.

Basically, the ways to trim pitch are:

Trim tab... most common

Adjustable horizontal stab... "full flying stab"... Pipers and supersonic aircraft.

Adjustable tail assembly... the whole tail moves... Mooneys use this... weird... I think there's also a jet transport that used this setup.

Bungees or springs in the elevator control run... tightening / loosening changes the "neutral" position.

 

I have used them all and (other than the fact that you are using a trim wheel or a hat switch to trim) they all do the same thing.

 

[Britchot]

59 minutes ago, Vonrd said:

Pipers and supersonic aircraft

The Piper Pawnees I fly are supersonic

[Baron]

6 hours ago, Razwald said:

So another change is if trim is on a axis in the aircraft its an axis in game. 

Except for the 109 that is still a push button in game. Despite having a wheel for trim. Not sure why that is still a 2 button trim but I'm glad. 

The 190 had electric controls for trim so that is correct.

Aircraft like the P-51, P-38, La-5, are now trimmed out with axis controls.

Im not sure if i understand correctly. Bf-109 had elevator trim (adjustable stabilizer exactly) on axis from begining. 

[Etzel]

This trim topic is very interesting for me: In my actual hardware setting I have some axis left that I cannot use properly while all buttons are used, thus some (more or less) frequently used functions are still bound to the keyboard...

And the point Vonrd explained brings up something I wanted to ask for a long time already: I allways wondered why there are different trim controls in the settings for different planes but as I was not completely sure if there are (or will be) planes that offer both trim options with slightly different effects I wanted to avoid to map both settings on the same keys... leading to the situation that overall 4 buttons of my joystick are used for the evelator trim...

Now Q1 is:  Does a plane in the IL2 universe exist, that has both trim options?? If not, than at least I can map both settings to  the same buttons and will gain 2 Buttons for other functions

And Q2: Is it possible in the latest release to map ALL versions of trimming to an Axis? Or is one Version still useable with buttons only?

[Baron]

Q1: dont think so. 

Q2: No. In planes what had trim (adjustable stabilizer) on buttons is impossible mapping trim to axis. Typical Fw-190.

[Etzel]

Thanks... and well, at least 2 buttons will be available for alternative use...

[Razwald]

3 hours ago, Baron said:

Im not sure if i understand correctly. Bf-109 had elevator trim (adjustable stabilizer exactly) on axis from begining. 

Here is another way to say it. In the 109 I see a wheel for elevator trim. So by their programming I should be using an axis wheel to adjust. However the 109 is still push button adjustment . Which is the same as before the new download.  The 190 has a electrical switch for trim so the trim hat works as before.

So when I set up my trim hat. The elevator trim works on both the 109 and 190.  The trim hat did not work on the P-38, P-51 and LA-5. Those I had to set up an axis to control the trim.

I may also be missing something I didn't have time to go into the aircraft to really see what was going on. If this is the way it is I'm ok with it. My throttle has a free axis for elevator and my control  I built has two more axis I can use.  Its the people that are short of axes what are they to do.

[Pfeil]

Raz the 109 had trim on axis since long time. It's just called "adjustable stabilizer Bf 109" and not trim.

[Baron]

32 minutes ago, Razwald said:

Here is another way to say it. In the 109 I see a wheel for elevator trim. So by their programming I should be using an axis wheel to adjust. However the 109 is still push button adjustment . Which is the same as before the new download.  The 190 has a electrical switch for trim so the trim hat works as before.

So when I set up my trim hat. The elevator trim works on both the 109 and 190.  The trim hat did not work on the P-38, P-51 and LA-5. Those I had to set up an axis to control the trim.

I may also be missing something I didn't have time to go into the aircraft to really see what was going on. If this is the way it is I'm ok with it. My throttle has a free axis for elevator and my control  I built has two more axis I can use.  Its the people that are short of axes what are they to do.

About Bf: as said Sipi above. I have not any problem with axis on Bf. 

Other planes with trim on axis - if you have mapped buttons and axe together, buttons will not work. Axis for trims working excellent on all planes in IL2 GB. 

Maybe the best solution will meet on TS and resolve your problem with axis "in natura"

 

[IRFC Hawkeye]

9 hours ago, Vonrd said:

Slightly better if you want to have trim as an axis. I use hat switch for all trims though so it's just an initial PITA for me just to re-do the mapping. 

I have (or had) a 5-way hat (4-way with push) for pitch and roll trim.  The push resets the trim to neutral.  I have a 2-way hat for rudder trim.  The only plane (that I've flown) that those actually seemed to function on was the 190, I think.

For the 109's, I had a wheel on my throttle handle....an axis.  I can't remember what other planes that worked for, but it seems like most.

That is the way it worked for me before the update.  Wondering if or how I'll need to change that.

If they're going to have all this controls functions separation, they need to make more than 3 options per control available to map.  I haven't run out yet, but I can see it happening for some folks with fewer button choices.

[IRFC Hawkeye]

8 hours ago, Vonrd said:

Why they have to separate it into several names of something that does the same thing... pitch trim is pitch trim no matter what actual mechanism accomplishes it. Adjustable stab or trim tab... doesn't matter... it's the same damn thing as far as what the pilot needs to accomplish and if the pilot didn't know how it was done he wouldn't be able to tell you what causes the plane to do his bidding.

This!

[Etzel]

56 minutes ago, Luftritter said:

9 hours ago, Vonrd said:

Why they have to separate it into several names of something that does the same thing... pitch trim is pitch trim no matter what actual mechanism accomplishes it. Adjustable stab or trim tab... doesn't matter... it's the same damn thing as far as what the pilot needs to accomplish and if the pilot didn't know how it was done he wouldn't be able to tell you what causes the plane to do his bidding.

This!

+1

... as long as there exists no plane that offers different ways of elevator trimming and stabilizator adjustment together I see no reason for offering different configuration options... ??? 

inmho it only increase complexity for implementation and for configuration without adding any value...

 

[IRFC Hawkeye]

Well....my question was rhetorical.  I know the answer to my own question.  "They" want you to have to move your controls to control those functions in the same way the real pilot had to.  But they are missing a big point.  Real pilots only flew one or two different types of aircraft, for the most part.  As sim pilots, we have to fly a LOT more....10, 20, whatever.  The reason for that is that we're needed to fill the roles of pilots in many different situations; and our numbers are limited.

So what is truly needed for a sim pilot is standardization across all types.  That way we don't have to change how we do things in every single different type of aircraft we get into.  The person who has figured out how best to standardize his controls across all planes is one who will have the greatest chance of success, IMHO.

[EmerlistDavjack]

I took 20 minutes in the P-38 and I love it.  So many great things, but now I gotta be a better shot.  Because if I hit a 190 wing with even just the 4 .50s, they all hit together and the wing shears off. If my aim is crappy, and it is, I miss entirely.

I hope Repair/Re-arm/Refuel replaces the 5 minute respawn timer for DiD events.  Instead it should be at least a 10 minute respawn timer. Wounded pilot in a high stakes situation asks himself, how wounded am I?

[Razwald]

10 hours ago, Pfeil said:

Raz the 109 had trim on axis since long time. It's just called "adjustable stabilizer Bf 109" and not trim.

 

10 hours ago, Baron said:

About Bf: as said Sipi above. I have not any problem with axis on Bf. 

Other planes with trim on axis - if you have mapped buttons and axe together, buttons will not work. Axis for trims working excellent on all planes in IL2 GB. 

Maybe the best solution will meet on TS and resolve your problem with axis "in natura"

 

I wasn't able to respond because I read these at work. As soon as I read them I knew what the issue was.

Its been awhile since I had set up my controls forgot that stabilizer and elevator trim are 2 separate things.

[Kliegmann]

glad I have a rocker switch on my yoke.  I just ties ALL elevator trims (no matter what they're called) to the thump switch, and all is good in my world.

[Vonrd]

16 hours ago, Kliegmann said:

glad I have a rocker switch on my yoke.  I just ties ALL elevator trims (no matter what they're called) to the thump switch, and all is good in my world.

Same

[Britchot]

I use the trim hat on the stick, so annoying, in my opinion. 

With all these options, the only one, I want (which would be a pain for everyone else) is to have the ability to assign the multi-engines 1-2-3 but have my single engines use the throttle I would use for #2. 

[Stuka]

S! guys!

And about the new “dot distant view”? What do you think?

[Britchot]

I haven't really tested it, but the missing Revi and sight glass is annoying. 

[93rd Aero, R.Talbot]

21 hours ago, Hess said:

S! guys!

And about the new “dot distant view”? What do you think?

Pretty much only way to see folks is be zoomed out all the way. It's kinda weird because it makes the plane look way closer than it actually is.