Razbam and ED angry at each other?

[Raptor]

Sort of out of the loop been busy at work, anyone know what's going on with this whole Razbam and Eagle Dynamics situation? Looks like the flight sim community is ablaze right now.

[Vonrd]

Here's the report on Stormbirds: https://stormbirds.blog/2024/04/04/eagle-dynamics-and-razbam-clash-in-public-statements/

Not looking good for the long awaited MiG-23.  I hope that they are able to work out their differences.

[Labroisse]

Lawyers 

[Britchot]

1 hour ago, Labroisse said:

Lawyers 

Hearts, Labroisse

[wheelsup_cavu]

Playing these types of disputes out in the court of public opinion can end up doing irreparable harm to both companies.

 

Wheels

[Klaiber]

1 hour ago, wheelsup_cavu said:

Playing these types of disputes out in the court of public opinion can end up doing irreparable harm to both companies.

 

Wheels

Agreed

[Erhardt]

I fail to see why they chose to include us (the customers) in this ongoing struggle, they could just have said things have been delayed owing to issues beyond their control. In the end ED are the ones in control and whatever happens I am sure ED will continue giving us the best Air Combat Simulator available today. So I choose to ignore this as there is nothing I can do or add, so I will simply ignore it. It does raise the question about preordering from third party developers in the future though.

[Klaiber]

7 hours ago, Erhardt said:

I fail to see why they chose to include us (the customers) in this ongoing struggle, they could just have said things have been delayed owing to issues beyond their control. In the end ED are the ones in control and whatever happens I am sure ED will continue giving us the best Air Combat Simulator available today. So I choose to ignore this as there is nothing I can do or add, so I will simply ignore it. It does raise the question about preordering from third party developers in the future though.

I think RAZBAM was hoping for leverage over ED in their contract dispute, which is why RAZBAM aired the dirty laundry in public.

If the consumers (us) got angry enough at ED on RAZBAM's behalf, we could collectively apply the pressure needed to finalize things in RAZBAM's favor.

But of course, once you bring stuff to the court of public opinion, it gets hard to control the narrative.  Just head to Reddit or more open forums to see how out of control the discussions have gotten in the last few days.

As a result, RAZBAM has already posted messages on their Discord trying to reign the message back.

In case the twitter link is removed at some point, razbam_prowler (Ron Zambrano) says:

Quote

Dear customers and community,
RAZBAM Simulations is actively working with EAGLE DYNAMICS to reach an agreement to resolve our internal dispute and we don't want the discussion that our public declaration has generated to escalate any further.  We want to assure you that it has never been nor will it be our intention to abandon our products.  We look forward to a prompt and satisfactory resolution, turn the page, and move forward.

Best regards,
Ron Zambano
CEO
RAZBAM Simulations, LLC

As I've mentioned to @Britchot and @Karl Spackler (Trev), trying not to escalate after taking the nuclear option is kind of like screaming "won't someone think of the children!" while simultaneously throwing them on the freeway.

[Karl Spackler]

[Vonrd]

Looking bad... three of Razbam's programmers just quit.

 

[Klaiber]

On their Discord, Razbam is still saying that they want a quick resolution.  They also said they don't want to hurt ED or DCS, as they're Razbam's primary business partner.

So, I'm still hopeful they'll figure things out.  But of course, it's hard to know what is actually going on.

 

 

 

[Karl Spackler]

I mean c'mon let's be real they're a 3rd party flight sim developer. They don't have a lot of places to go (DCS and MSFS), so they better work it out. Those communities are bit but not that big. 

[Vonrd]

True.

But with their employees quitting (and good game programmers have lots of options and will probably just move on to something else), I wouldn't be surprised if Razbam folded. How many people actually work there? Three quitting is probably a pretty big hit. 

[Karl Spackler]

On 4/19/2024 at 10:38 PM, Vonrd said:

True.

But with their employees quitting (and good game programmers have lots of options and will probably just move on to something else), I wouldn't be surprised if Razbam folded. How many people actually work there? Three quitting is probably a pretty big hit. 

Well I can tell you firsthand that going from 30 to 7 people on an R&D team is pretty fkn devastating. 

[Snaggle]

 

[Klaiber]

38 minutes ago, Snaggle said:

 

Yeah, this is not good.

Thankfully, the MiG-19P has avoided major issues.  As far as I know, it still works as intended.  But for us, the idea of having it break (or losing it entirely) is really difficult.  That's not even to mention the M2K, the F-15E, etc.  

And I'll be honest, as a REDFOR pilot, losing the MiG-23MLA before we even get it is devastating.

[Vonrd]

"Oh Power greater than me, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference."

Doesn't mean that I'm not mightily concerned...

[Flyboy]

24 minutes ago, Vonrd said:

Oh Power greater than me

Sorry I draw the line on praying to ED

[Lipfert]

Has anyone asked for a refund for the Strike Eagle? 

[Klaiber]

1 hour ago, Lipfert said:

Has anyone asked for a refund for the Strike Eagle? 

Personally, I wouldn't.

We don't know what's happening.  And for me, having no news is actually good news.  It we were hearing grumblings and details and stuff, I'd be more worried.

 

[Vonrd]

"Refunds" are DCS store credit only. 7 to 10 working days. Steam purchased are not refundable if you have more than 2 hours logged. I would advise against asking for a refund also.

https://forum.dcs.world/topic/348848-razbam-situation-what-is-the-status/?do=findComment&comment=5459449

[Flyboy]

Update at 3:50. Not a lot new except they are still talking. They did apparently fix the issue with the M-2000.

 

[Klaiber]

Something interesting from the ED boards.  A screenshot, posted on November 28, from Discord.

https://forum.dcs.world/topic/320680-any-news-on-the-mig-23/page/6/#comment-5556453

"MiG-23 will be"

dotrugirl (Kate Perederko) is the COO for Eagle Dynamics SA.

No idea what this means regarding the Razbam/ED feud.  But it at least means that ED intends for a MiG-23 module to happen.