IL-2... Pacific theatre?

[Yogi]

I really dont understand why everyone views a new add on or module's worth through the lens of PvP. I see it time & again on the DCS forums as if PvP is all that anyone does. The simple truth is both in DCS & IL2 the PvP community is a small (but vocal) segment. The VAST majority of players play both games single player & that is where "inferior" planes will be most welcome.  

Having said that. Planes like the Zero are not truly out classed. I too am a veteran of Warbirds, AirWarrior & Aces High playing PvP in the open servers & in scenarios. While the Hellcat & Corsair etc shine in history they arent "all that".
In order to defeat the Zeke, all things being equal you have to use energy tactics. The problem is if the Zeke pilot has good SA hes going to see you coming & can turn fast enough that you wont be able to get guns on. Moreover, if he times it right he turns fast enough to get guns on you as you zoom climb away. A brief shot to be sure but enough time to do some damage. Then there is the fact that with every zoom climb you dont get quite at high as the last one so successive attacks happen with a diminished energy state. I have seen & done it myself numerous times. After a few attacks the Corsair, Hellcat, Lightning etc etc ends up in a rate fight which they can never win.
All of this assumes neither side has any help show up which is never a good assumption to make. 

IMO if they released a PTO with the A6M, N1K & J2M there would be no shortage of people looking to take up the Rising Sun. 

[Ludwig]

For me it was not about the maneuverability of the Japanese fighters... it was about their flammable nature. If you hit them, they are gone. The maneuver aspect is no different than a Dr.I and a Spad.  You just don't need cannon to bring down a machine with no armor what so ever... no self-sealing fuel tanks. This is why fighters were comfortable with rifle caliber guns, they were fine against soft targets. 

Six .50 caliber machine guns were overkill against the Oscar and the Zeke.  

 

[Barton]

 

Especially considering this was armor piercing AND INCENDIARY ammo being employed.  This armament of 6 .50s was almost  universally used on American aircraft (with a few notable exceptions) and was considered by most American pilots in the European theater to be sufficient even against aircraft with armor and sealing fuel tanks.  Flying Japanese planes is like dousing yourself in gasoline and then having someone shoot roman candles at you.   

[Yogi]

Fair points. All you have to do is hit a plane 30% smaller than you that can out roll, out turn & out climb you. Easy peazy...

[Barton]

9 minutes ago, Yogi said:

Fair points. All you have to do is hit a plane 30% smaller than you that can out roll, out turn & out climb you. Easy peazy...

It's really not that difficult.  Especially considering that most pilots don't know how to squeeze the most out of those lemons.

[Jaus]

I hate to see the possibilities of an intense, varied, combined arms theater like the Pacific lost in a debate over individual aircraft matchups.   I know this is an aviation sim, but what about the recreation of the historical experience?   Of course I am one who values the historical immersion far more than the rock-paper-scissors of warbird debates, but there must be a way to create a positive Pacific experience for both single and pvp players.   

 

[Vonrd]

Well... it's all speculation innit? Highly doubtful that it will come to fruition this year (but there's always a possibility of surprise). I would be highly disappointed if it pushed back FC2 though.

There's discussion by Jason starting about 28:00 in this vid:

 

 

[wheelsup_cavu]

On 1/26/2021 at 10:54 AM, Jaus said:

It is true that the continuous-campaign map design of IL2 these days does make it hard to do a steady, balanced Pacific mission area.   I sure do miss Pacific theater though.   Back in '46 I put together a historic/fictional Guadalcanal mini campaign that included:

Raid on Tulagi the morning of the 7th.

Aug 7th afternoon air battle as the first wave of Japanese bombers met the Wildcat CAP

Aug 8th air battle when Japanese tried low approach to landing zone

Attack on the Ryujo (Eastern Solomons)

Pre-dawn sub-hunt

Low level surprise raid on Henderson by Japanese floatplanes  (this one was a favorite...no time to taxi, full flaps, firewall it, try to avoid hitting freindlies doing the same )

Cactus AF strike on fleeing Tokyo express vessels.

Cactus AF strike on Japanese landing at Lunga Pt.

 

 

Did you ever release this mini campaign anywhere?

Wheels

[Jaus]

No,  it was just a fun project that we played years ago as a series of one-off missions.   I'm not sure why I brought it up.   Just reminiscing I guess.

[Erhardt]

Problem with flying the Zero is its great 1 v 1, but once you throw in a wingman or two and they cover each other, the Zero has to fly straight and level to aim at its target as the targets wingman takes aim at the Zero and puuufff Zero (you) are on fire...we flew Zeros back in IL2 1946 and its great as long as you get to fight your "guy" alone, but in campaigns where the other side are using tactics and teamwork...its pretty bad...of course from 1943-1944 the Japanese get some better planes, and again, I would not want to fly the Zero in 1943, of course in eary war the Japanese also get the Ki43 which can turn even better than a Zero, but is slower has worse armament and is even more fragile...So if you want to fly Japanese mainly fly "army" planes in 1943 or later....But hey, I am no  expert on the Pacific war or Japanese planes.

[Ludwig]

On 1/27/2021 at 5:10 PM, Jaus said:

  I know this is an aviation sim, but what about the recreation of the historical experience?   

 

This is a REALLY old subject and the same thing I said 30+ years ago still holds...    how many folks want to play an event on Pearl Harbor or the Alamo?  You know how it is going to turn out....  and you can play for points but that doesn't seem to hold the attention of most guys. 

It can be worked.... sure....  of course numbers can go a long way to making the balance.  Imagine being the Cactus airforce and having the Japanese come over with 3-1 or 4-1 advantage.

[Vonrd]

Yeah, this has been hashed out a lot as far as gaming goes. 

Actually, Cactus didn't do too bad after the first encounters.

The Japanese, on the other hand, lost many more pilots due to the long distance thay had to fly. Quite a few had to ditch due to fuel running out and damage and the Japanese weren't nearly as good as the Americans about picking up downed airmen... Bushido... After a short while the Japanese pilots were extremely worn out from 8 hour or  more sorties with no rest at all. The Zero did have extreme range but pilots can only take so much. I know that I lose focus after only 3 to 4 hours of hand flying and they had to hand fly far longer... no autopilot for them... and they had to do combat to boot and come down from the adrenaline rush.

"but what about the recreation of the historical experience?"  

That is the historical experience for the Japanese in the Solomons... but not limited to the Pacific theatre. Most combat operations in all theaters were hours upon hours of droning... then OMG... KILL, KILL, KILL... then hours more of droning. I don't think any of us want to exactly recreate that experience.

 

[Britchot]

5 hours ago, Vonrd said:

Most combat operations in all theaters were hours upon hours of droning... then OMG... KILL, KILL, KILL... then hours more of droning.

Still is

[rotagen]

Hi guys, I'm new to this forum.

I've been playing a lot of Jane's WW2F, making my own german skins etc, the advanced combat designer is a blast, instant action with tons of planes and decent AI enemies.  That and some RB3D because I love WW1 planes.  It's a shame all the new sims concentrated on nothing but multiplayer for the kids and eye candy without providing any customizeability and no addictiveness (the damage models in rise of flight for instance make the game drudgery, and not realistic when you're talking plywood and canvas surrounding fuel and oil)...back in the day CFS2 was a lot of fun with tons of add-on planes and terrains, I used to fly over geo-detailed maps of death valley, CA just by entering the latitude and longitude.... too bad CFS3 had such terrible AI planes doing nothing and wandering off....I still say those old games are better, but I digress...

I am thinking of flying IL-2 which I haven't done in about 5 years... has anyone tried a pacific theatre mod on IL-2 or the spanish civil war mod?

If so please point me to the links for the downloadable mods, I have found some discussion of both, but either the download links don't work or the forums have no good summary of what is required for installation...

Looking for something new and my favorite WW2 plane is the zero, the lightness and maneuverability makes it a joy.

Perhaps I should wait until DCS has mods with these theaters?  Any input is welcome, thanks for reading.

Just for your info, if you can get a copy of "Wings of Prey" it is worth it for the best terrain ever produced in any flight sim, ... it is so realistic when you are flying low you feel like you are in an actual airplane. with a huge sense of speed.... too bad it became that multiplayer game.

[Klaiber]

Hi @rotagen, welcome!

I'm not familiar with a Pacific mod for IL-2 Great Battles.  But I did find this: 

And this: https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/35406-wipmod-the-pacific-mod/

 

[wheelsup_cavu]

15 hours ago, rotagen said:

if you can get a copy of "Wings of Prey"

As of today Wings of Prey is still available at Steam and Good old Games.

Steam: https://store.steampowered.com/app/45300/Wings_of_Prey/

GoG: https://www.gog.com/en/game/wings_of_prey_complete

The GoG version includes the Wings of Luftwaffe addon for the same price whereas it is a separate download and extra price at Steam.

Quote

GoG: Wings of Prey: Special Edition includes Wings of Prey and the Wings of Luftwaffe add-on

 

Wheels

[Vonrd]

Loved WOP! It was my first serious foray into multiplayer / joining a squad and where I got my handle. The squad was JS109 and all members were Vons with their initials as the last 2 letters... we had Vonmo, Vonki and, of course Vonrd...