Flying Circus and Tank Crew

[Barton]

First flights and impressions of Flying Circus early release

 

https://youtu.be/WWBb1TMN1sc

[Pfeil]

I will try to answer some of the questions as a proud owner of FC with a few hours of combat flight.

 

 

The lack of response curves in FC is disappointing... maybe they will import in the future... but I doubt it. The DR1 seems a bit tamer but I just did one flight.

 

 

Yes the response curves will be added before the release of FC. DR1 is a bit tamer right now. Those snap rolls are slower and you can catch them before stalling or spinning.

 

 

 

Does the early release support VR?

 

 

Yes it supports VR. Nechy is flying with VR helm and he had no problems yesterday flying with us.

 

 

I'm really surprise there's no human controlled AAA/SPAA. If the tank crew are intended to any kind of interconnection with the Il-2, then this is a serious gap of the game.

 

 

 

In one of the forum posts Jason wrote that 1 SPAA pre side is planned but they have to do some game mechanic changes for that to work.

 

 

 

And at last some pictures from yesterdays fight on one Japanese WW1 server "Shooting Stars WW1 Expert JP".

Pictures are made by Baron. I hope he doesn't mind.

We had ping over 300 on that server but we did notice only little lag.

We shot down some Spads and Nechy got his first flight in a WW1 machine.

 

[Baron]

I'm really surprise there's no human controlled AAA/SPAA. If the tank crew are intended to any kind of interconnection with the Il-2, then this is a serious gap of the game.

 

Remember that we have early access only. AAA will be later. Ofcourse with human crew. 

 

Pictures are made by Baron. I hope he doesn't mind.

 

Ofcourse not, buddy. Im glad if pictures will like it. Must say that we had score 5 :0 for us - was really great fun. Long long time before i saw 12 planes in fight in one small place. And it is only a beggining...

[-Hawkeye-]

Well I got my $15.00 US off and got the early release of FC for $54.99 US.  With the setup I had for RoF, I found FC much harder to see in, with the higher resolution that I'm using.  It seems that the pilot's position in the cockpit is further forward; in other words, I can't get a FOV that's as wide as I used to get in RoF.  This is evidenced by the fact that the default position is higher, and the gun sight no longer is lined up with the "X" wires on the Dr.I, but instead is shooting above them.  I found Barton's comments while flying the Dr.I interesting, saying that they don't require as much lead...but actually the lead was pre-programmed in, as he was lining up the wires, but the bullets were going far forward of that...at least that is what happens in my resolution.  I can see that he has a 16:9 aspect ratio, where as mine is much wider (though not taller).  What I did notice is that this game seems to eliminate the "fish eye" effect which is the result of stretched video in RoF, when you turn your head, when using the wider aspect ratio that I have.

 

One thing I was disappointed in, and is probably is a result of the basic engine, is the "hit flashes" that appear on the structure of the enemy plane you're shooting at, when your bullets hit home.  This is great for the shooter, but is a big disadvantage for the the flyer or maneuverer.  I'm very sure this is realistic for WWII fighting in which large caliber bullets are hitting metal structure; but I highly doubt that wood and canvas makes flashes when .303 bullets hit them....and this was my number 1 reason for staying away from OFF (Over Flanders Fields), which was also based on a WWII flight/damage engine.  I know this is an early release, but with the integration with the WWII (IL2) sims, wonder whether it will ever be possible to change that without affecting everything else.  Oh well, if not, we'll all become very used to it.  In the end, it will reward the shooting end, and penalize the escaping end....which is I thought was one of the best aspects of RoF....the ability to escape damage or harm through flying skill or maneuvers.

 

This is nothing that is specific to FC, but is specific to IL2.  It pisses me off that the game will not recognize the integrated "switches" which are incorporated into each lever axis of a CH Thottle Quadrant.  Here is another thing that worked perfectly in RoF, but doesn't work at all in the IL2 series.  In other words, I can't program a blip switch (or any other function, like engine on/off or prop feathering) to any of my quadrant axis switches, because the IL2 games do not see it when trying to map it in the IL2 controls mapping utility.  This would not be a big deal if those particular switches were able to be mapped to different key within the CH Control Manager; but those particular switches which are integrated into the control axis, are not able to be remapped; in other words, they can only work in "DX (Direct X) mode.  Just about any other switches are able to be reprogrammed.

 

So I am wondering whether others (maybe Barton?) have no trouble mapping those switches using other throttle quadrant hardware.  Perhaps for some reason the IL2 game recognizes Saitek quadrants and not CH quadrants.  What's up with that?

 

Regardless, I'm wondering if there is a time that us current owners of FC can get together on a MMP server and try to kick some @$$       , or at least host our own server and practice against each other.

 

S!

[Kliegmann]

I might pick it up in the next couple of days.  When I do, I can put together a quick mission to fly on

[Baron]

To Luftritter - flash when you hit enemy is temporary only. Devs know about it, testers said to them about it more times. Is impossible put all things for FC in first patch. Repeat myself but this is early access only, not final product. When time will runing more and more things will repair. For example flash after hit too.

 

About buttons - i have not problem with  mapping any buttons. But i must say honestly that i have Thrustmaster Warthog, not Saitek. 

[Vonrd]

Just an FYI... ROF skins work in FC. Just copy them over from your ROF skin file to the IL2BOS skin file. They are darker though due to the darken overlay used in ROF not required in BOS. They can be lightened up in PS or GIMP then resaved. I'll check on it later.

[Razwald]

Snaggle, since Pfeil all ready answered your question all I can add to this is VR 1st impressions. The SPAD feels claustrophobic and I'm not a fan of the rear sight.. Its not that it renders goofy in VR its that its rendered in both eyes and you go crossed eye trying to line it up.

 

There is a mod for the reticle that works for the WW2 planes. The mod only renders the reticle it in one eye otherwise you can see two reticles depending on how you move your head . My guess is that the reticle is not part of the model for the airframes so its easy to remove it from one eye. The rear sight on the SPAD would be part of the model so I'm not sure if it can be fixed. I find in VR its easy to walk tracers onto the target so I just ignore the sight.

[Snaggle]

Raz,

 

Much thanks, I guess I will pull the trigger this weekend and see how it looks!!

 

S!

[Razwald]

Raz,

 

Much thanks, I guess I will pull the trigger this weekend and see how it looks!!

 

S!

 

I guess a better way to explain the rear sight is it is the same thing if you where to hold your thumb out and place it over an object and open close each eye to see which eye is dominate.

[Baron]

Skinners are excited about Clash of Prokhorovka - Wittmanns Tiger 1313 by DetCord12B 

 

Download link: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1LYnhFaI-YVcQcD2BsuoOcLQN3SMuCFSU/view

 

[Schäfer]

Regardless, I'm wondering if there is a time that us current owners of FC can get together on a MMP server and try to kick some @$$       , or at least host our own server and practice against each other.

 

S!

 

I am keen to give this a try with the squadron. Its not only CH sticks that are having issues. My MKV is proving tricky to map. I have had to invert some of the controls to get them to work. And the standard zoom doesnt seem to map the way it does in RoF. Would it be to hard t import controls from RoF to FC?

 

So it can be played in Multiplayer. Are there any other areas that are open yet? Being knew to ILS I am not familiar with navigating around the game menu.

 

!S!

[-Hawkeye-]

I am keen to give this a try with the squadron. Its not only CH sticks that are having issues. My MKV is proving tricky to map. I have had to invert some of the controls to get them to work. And the standard zoom doesnt seem to map the way it does in RoF. Would it be to hard t import controls from RoF to FC?

 

So it can be played in Multiplayer. Are there any other areas that are open yet? Being knew to ILS I am not familiar with navigating around the game menu.

 

!S!

 

It's "IL2" not "ILS"....the original game was named after the famous IL-2 Sturmovik Russian ground attack plane from WWII.  You aren't going to be able to import controls (or anything, besides skins) into IL2; IL2 is becoming an uber-sim which incorporates many titles under one game, so the controls have to be universal and all-encomassing for all of the planes, which up to the point before this FC addition, all were focused on WWII planes.  Now certain new control functions have been added in this update, to accomodate the WWI planes that are there now, or will be coming (altitude throttle control, for one).  Also at this point in time, the response curve capability in IL2 is far more limited and simplified than the one in RoF; so you won't be able to correct most of the problems with the WWI planes like you could in RoF (can't trim the nose down to fly level, for example, unless [later] it's a plane that has a trim wheel by design, like the S.E.5a, or Sopwith Triplane).  However, for those of you that may have trim wheels incorporated into the hardware of your joystick, you can use those (I have this, but haven't tried it yet).  If you do, don't forget to return the wheel (or wheels) back to center for other planes!!

 

Also, the need to invert an axis isn't that big of a deal and is pretty common; it has to do with your joystick, they don't all work the same.  It's easy to do within the controls mapping utility, if you haven't figured it out....it's not obvious the way they show that function....Kleigmann pointed it out to me.

 

Also in IL2 there are certain functions that are designed to be mapped to an axis (the listing for those controls uses only a single entry), and other functions that are designed to be controlled by buttons (the listings have two entries, one for up and one for down, or increase and decrease, whatever).  For the second type, the IL2 controls mapping utility can be problematic if you're trying to use a toggle or hat switch, because it will register the first direction you push it twice, and you'll never be able to get the second direction to register when it's sensing your inputs.  This is because they tried to make it work in one single operation, instead of two separate ones, like in RoF, which works perfectly, of course.  The way around this is to use your joystick utility to cause your joystick button to act as a keyboard function (such as the default keys that are usually already mapped in the IL2 utility).  Then when you get back into the IL2 controls, you don't need to map anything more because the default keyboard commands are already there, and then when you use your joystick buttons in the game, it will act as those keyboard keys or combinations of keys....if you've properly programmed your stick.  This will probably cause you to need a new, separate joystick map than the one you were using for RoF, for IL2.

 

Still, the controls can be buggy, with things that stop working during a session, which worked before.  Last QMB session I flew, my map wouldn't come up at all (keyboard "M").  Some of these problems can be related to your "realism" settings that you have set....for instance, if you can't get your mixture lever to work, you may have to use the shift-M command to toggle off automatic mixture....or disable auto-mixture in the mission realism settings, etc.

[Dudley]

Bought FC with the extra ROF discount and have been stumbling through the BOS settings and menus.

It's getting there and did a successful take-off, circuit and landing in the DR1.

[Lee]

Ok, I bought FC and got an extra RoF discount of $15.  Downloading now and we will see how it all goes.

[Snaggle]

I spent about 3 hours with FC this afternoon.

 

I won't get into flight models, realistic or not I'll leave that for those much better at that than me.

 

1. VR "SWEET", going to have to get a scarf so my neck doesn't chafe from looking around and behind!!

2. I can look around the wings and struts and not loose sight of the enemy, much more natural IMO even with TIR (looks like I will be retiring that as the only game I used it for was RoF)

3. Love the tracers, reminds me of "Flyboys" style tracers.

4. Map always up like that also!

5. Flight said realistic, but I had icons, auto engine management, and a plane on the map? I will have to look at how to turn those off.

6. Bombing worked fine in the Spad but had an aiming reticle? No damage on the ground after a bomb drop? Not sure about that either.

7. Take off and Landing as you wuld expect.

8. In VR as RAZ pointed out the sights were a little wonky.

 

Pleased with this early release from a non-technical stand point.

 

I will no be looking into how stats work, I will be checking the forums as I'm sure it is the same as BOS or BOM. If any one can point me in the right direction please do!

 

S!

[Lee]

1. VR "SWEET", going to have to get a scarf so my neck doesn't chafe from looking around and behind!!

 

 

The advantage of my spaceship setup in VR is two joysticks and no foot pedals.  Chafe neck?  Not with a swivel chair!

[93rd Aero, R.Talbot]

I was back home for the weekend and picked up FC. I was able to sneak in a flight with both planes for about 10 minutes. All I can say is... WOW. Can't wait for the full volume!

[Kliegmann]

Well I bought it, and built a simple, quick MP mission in the builder.  It will really be nice when they release the map and scenery objects.

[Butzzell]

S! All

 

 

This is early access.  This is no where near the actual product. This is not even an alpha version.

 

I think 777 is using this more as a huge public test. They are not interested in feedback on features. They want to know where the problems are. What locks up. What causes a crash. What graphics settings have problems.

 

They also want to get as much money in as quick as possible.

 

Works for me.

[Lee]

Installed Flying Circus.  First time I launched it was just to see if it would start.  Loaded OK and I looked at the SPAD in the air.  Basic flying controls worked as my CH controllers were plugged into the computer, but I exited as a test flight was not my objective and no buttons were set-up.  Exited the game.

 

Whats the deal with the IL2 launcher?  It doesn’t want to close.

 

Next time I launched, I had made a copy and renamed the CH Control Manager profile I use for RoF.  Started Control Manager then started the game.  Got a message about new joysticks found and did I want to transfer settings.  Huh?  

 

Opened the controls setup and set the pitch, roll, yaw and throttle axis.  What’s this?  Joy4, Joy5 and Joy7?

 

Took the SPAD up for a circuit of the field.  Head zoom starts closer and doesn’t have quite the range of zoom in and zoom our as the RoF SPAD.  Did a couple of landings.  Handling seems similar to RoF and I’m just as bad landing the SPAD in either game.

 

Exited and looked into the joystick game files to see what was up with the device numbering.  Yup, my CH Fighter Stick, Pro Throttle, Pro Pedals and Throttle Quadrant were listed as devices 0 through 3 and the Control Manager virtual devices started at number 4.  It remembered the device numbers it assigned to the CH kit when I first started the game and continued the number sequence for the Control Manager virtual devices.  I edited the CH physical controllers out of the list and renumbered the Control Manager virtual devices 0 through 4.

 

Rebooted and restarted the game.  Now the FC joystick numbering matched the RoF numbering.  Reassigned the axis.  Did another couple of landings and noted  carry over from the RoF button assignments with FC button convention, at least for the keys I used during my flight.  Hopefully I won’t take much to update my keybinding file.

 

Final test was to launch RoF and make sure it was still working correctly.  It was.

[Baron]

Reaction from real Dr1 pilot (he is flying replica) about FC Dreidecker flight model: https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/38067-fokker-dri-discussion/?do=findComment&comment=645151

[Kliegmann]

Last night Butzzell, Dudley and myself went on the Japanese WWI server and started playing around with the aircraft.  The nice thing about the server (right now anyways) is it is sparsely populated, so you can jump in and learn the fly the airplanes, do some formation stuff, and when you're ready, you head off and attack the AI that are buzzing around, or like in our case, we had a J5 member jump over and fly a Spad against us after flying around with us in the DR1.

[-Hawkeye-]

@ Lee, with respect to the "new joysticks found", when you created the new map and downloaded it to your devices, did you have it in "direct" mode instead of "mapped" mode? (or vice-versa).  The first time you logged in, it sensed your controls in mapped mode, if that's how your original RoF map was made, and assigned your devices to 1, 2 or 3, or whatever....after you make another map and start the game again, if it's in direct mode, it will see those as different controllers and assign them new ID's (5, 6, 7, whatever).  Anyway I noticed that happening to me when I decided to try using them in direct mode, to see if it sensed buttons in the controls setup utility of the game any better.  It didn't make any difference.  Anyway, I see you realized the solution.

 

And yes, the launcher does hang for me (and others) too.  A bug they need to fix.

 

For people who ONLY have FC, it should be pretty easy to end up with the same controls as you had set up in RoF for the WWI planes.  There's a lot you won't have to worry about if you don't have BoS, BoM, or the other WWII parts.  I won't say that it's easy to make the IL2 controls mapping utility work, though; it's far buggier than RoF's.  If your CH map is made to set your joystick buttons to act as keyboard buttons (instead of "DX buttons"), then your problems should be minimal. However if you just want to press a standard joystick button, a CH joystick for sure at least, many of the entries just won't work that way.

 

@ Butzzell, if 777 is interested in what the problems are, the truth is that the main ones right now already existed before FC even came out, and are just part of the general BoX controls mapping bugs or inadequacies.  If they would fix the logic of how the controls mapping works it seems like most if not all of the problems could be eliminated.  The way they have some functions sense a pair of buttons in one operation just doesn't work well on toggle or hat switches that have a center position....if they would make it take 2 separate sensing operations the way it works in RoF, it would work better.  Also, if they could make some or all of the functions work as either an axis or a pair of buttons, instead of making it a one or the other situation, that would help a lot too....again, it seems to work that way in RoF.  Lastly, why the IL2 controls mapping utility doesn't sense the integrated switches on any of the CH throttle quadrant axis' is a fault that limits what you can do also.  That's another thing that works fine in RoF, but not in IL2.  I'm not sure if that is also true for Saitek throttle quadrants, or not; or whether it only applies to certain controls functions.  What I do know is that prop feathering won't work off one of those switches, and neither will a blip switch.  So that sucks, and those particular switches can't be reconfigured in the CH control manager, so there's no work around for me or others who might want to use them.

 

Also I think you're very correct about the release.  It was a very smart marketing ploy to offer the discounts to those who had spent the most money in the past.  They got the game out for purchase to the most likely buyers, they got it out early, and I'll bet they got a big chunk of money right when they needed it most.  Now I hope they apply that to FC and not the other games, and get the bugs worked out of all of them, and get planes out at a rate faster than 2 per year, and if they have to charge more money for the planes than they did in RoF, so be it.

 

S!

[Kliegmann]

I found the article that Baron posted up about the FM of the DR1 to be very enlightening.  The 3 of us actually had a discussion last night about the forward stick pressure, and to discover that the WWI pilots DID actually have to deal with that, proving that its NOT a flaw with the in-game FM is awesome.  I decided to leave the curves alone, and proudly earn my carpel tunnel syndrome.